Just Once - James Ingram (acoustic cover)

[Bono]

Hey guys, I keep out of my comfort zone. This song comes and goes again and again through out my first bridge. On the high notes I'm trying to narrow the open vowels, I notice sometimes I do it too much

 

Please let me know what do you think!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[Strengthlegacy]

I just listened to the original and I can honestly say that I like yours better. Your tone conveyed much more emotion to me at least.

 

The only little tip I could give you maybe is open up a bit more during the vowels, I can feel there is much more power behind your voice. Perhaps try to cover it a semi-tone higher I'd be curious to hear what it sounds like!

 

[KillerKu]

As usual, I like it. You just have a cool, passionate voice.

 

The only thing I can think technically is maybe a bit more more nasal resonance might help. You have a smooth, warm, round tone, but when ascending that kind of timbre tends to give me trouble. I'm wondering if you were to practice buzzing like a bee on an n or ng kind of kind of consonant and then adding a slight bit of that into the timbre, if it might help.  I find it most useful to be able to isolate that one and then mix it as desirable.

 

I actually had similar ideas for Matakka, but both of you are not first language English, so I was wondering how to explain this with words. Anyway, if you make the sound at its most extreme it can sound kind of like this (hint, not very good):

 

https://app.box.com/s/dj64xvqknp5uvuh5ty0c1h9j1jd9eq6i

 

Which was also twanged. But if you incorporate some of that into the sound, when added judiciously into the voice it tends to make singing easier. For your timbre and style, you'd need to be a minimalist and add the least amount that is necessary, which hopefully wouldn't be too noticeable.

 

Anyway, I think SLS uses the 'nay' sound to isolate the nasal sound. Next time I get loud time, I'm going to record sounds that are transitioning between the a richer more pharyngeal resonance, and a buzzy, nasal one, and the space between.I think it's really useful to be able to do, not just for creating high notes, but just balancing out a timbre. For me it's kind of like a tone knob on the guitar.

 

____________________________

 

 

On a second listen, it sounded like during the first half you had more a more forward placement, but as the song progressed, it felt like it was slipping and moving around and were mostly using the cry/plaintive/hold thing.

 

If it feels good, it sounds good. But I know if I rely overly on the cry/plaintive thing it feels pressed or weird. So if it doesn't feel quite right, you can try to lean the placement forward on the higher notes, while on your lower notes you can keep them as round as you'd like.

[m.i.r.]

Good mr fu......believe you forgot to unlock the link.

[KillerKu]

Good mr fu......believe you forgot to unlock the link.

 

You be correct. Still new to this box thingy. Can't clutter soundcloud with random sound effects forever.

[m.i.r.]

I think you sounded great bono...I agree with strength, I like it better than the original. I also agree maybe some parts you could open the vowel "just a hair" if you really wanted to knit pick. This is the first song I have heard of yours, I was un aware you were on that level...once again you sounded great.

I want to also make a comment to killer's post. The way bono is assending upwards on that partially closed sound. I think that gives some people trouble and others not, some people sound great doing this others not so much. It has some to do with training, opera for example will help build up closed vowels. However, I really think it has alot to do with design of the neck and resonating area, back pressure build up and all the other accoustic properties. Some people can rip in a way on a more closed vowel, where another will get choked off or experience discomfort.

I only say this as I myself can handle closed notes like that pretty easily with little issue(almost covered in a way). He sounded comfortable like me in that aspect. If I open a vowel, usually it will be for a tone choice, not out of necessity. This would be a strong suit for me, and from my guess bono, because he sounded like it had no effect on him.

However, there is a double edged sword to this. In your sample (killer) you twanged early and had a early pharyngeal tone, which I have a hard time to really dial that in before c5. I would like to bring that in earlier many times especially in live settings for increased stamina. However, this still isnt an option to me yet, as i still havent got the right sound with yet. And it may never be an option who knows.

I really believe these differences are a product of the individual accoustic areas of each person. You may be able to get a female to emulate a male voice with training, but a male will do it naturally without training...and 99 percent of the time sound better

[Robert Lunte]

Pretty voice... great song choice. 

 

- 1:13 - "Make it right".. .watch that diphthong... hold the open vowel longer... make the diphthong more ghosty... "meh-k"  the "eek" is only subliminal.. you almost don't sing the "ee" at all.

 

- Watch the timing on a few of the cues btw...

 

- 7:38 - "Find a way"... same thing... not "Fi-ee-nd"  Remove that diphthong... modify to something like

 

"...Fahnduh Weh Tuh Mehkeht ruh-eht".

 

Hope this helps... beautiful voice... 

[KillerKu]

MIR, you may be right, but here is the tone knob demonstration I was going to make. I needed to warm up anyway. Basically, on one extreme you have the really open pharynx, round tone.  And on other extreme there is extremely forward placement, super twangy nasality. It's controllable, like a sound color for me. 

 

https://app.box.com/s/0g46bgw7jskxmb2taobdiwws4xrvxsng

 

I have found I pretty much need to lean into timbre at least a little bit.  My point is not to make a horrific nasal sound, but if you can control the sound color a bit, like a tone knob on the guitar. So I showed black and white, but then shades of gray all between in various circumstances.

 

I didn't put any compression or reverb or whatever, just to keep it honest, so it won't be 'beautiful' but it could helpful. The super forward placement, or pharyngeal voice, is kind of like a 'nya.'

 

Once again, it's not about replicating what I do, but I've just found control over this, has really helped me. Even if I want to sing a darker, rounder sound, leaning into that forward placement a little still helps.

[m.i.r.]

Dude you are a trip killer...the beginning part had me laughing, thought I was in a sci fi movie lol. In seriousness though, i def understand what you are saying and demonstrating . You were basically adding over amount of twang, then going to absolutely nothing. I am actually in a conversation about this exact subject in the technical section.

I def use the heavy twang up top, I have an angry cat impersonation on there to prove it ha ha. However, bringing that lower for me isnt comfortable or sound super great. So I use a bit of a cover, and a bit extra compression. I think its the way my vocal track is designed that causes this. Also too much time in the opera world. To me it sounds bono uses the same style In a sense.

However, I will say, i would love to build the ability to either bring more modal up, or bring more even head down. So far I am convinced that it is biology and how my vocal mechanism and acoustic area work together. However, I have no problem to admit when wrong if someone proves it. Though, time, study, and trial and error speak to my conclusion. However,this is one time I would enjoy to have to eat crow.

[KillerKu]

Dude you are a trip killer...the beginning part had me laughing, thought I was in a sci fi movie lol. In seriousness though, i def understand what you are saying and demonstrating . You were basically adding over amount of twang, then going to absolutely nothing. I am actually in a conversation about this exact subject in the technical section.

I def use the heavy twang up top, I have an angry cat impersonation on there to prove it ha ha. However, bringing that lower for me isnt comfortable or sound super great. So I use a bit of a cover, and a bit extra compression. I think its the way my vocal track is designed that causes this. Also too much time in the opera world. To me it sounds bono uses the same style In a sense.

However, I will say, i would love to build the ability to either bring more modal up, or bring more even head down. So far I am convinced that it is biology and how my vocal mechanism and acoustic area work together. However, I have no problem to admit when wrong if someone proves it. Though, time, study, and trial and error speak to my conclusion. However,this is one time I would enjoy to have to eat crow.

 

 

MIR, your description is close, but I'm also allowing the pharynx 'woof' open into a wide position which boosts the low mid frequencies and allowing it to narrow for more treble. If you speak in a very narrow voice, imitate like a stereotypical computer geek with a nasally voice, I can find the extreme of this position.

 

I was basically saying not only is increasing the twang helpful, but dropping a bit of that woofing sound can highlight the treble frequencies and seems to make singing higher easier for me.

 

Like a guitar amp. you have 'angry cat knob' treble knob and 'woofing dog' low mid knob. Turning down the woof is a way of increasing the angry cat and so forth. Turning up each knob varying amounts gets different balances.

 

David Bowie is a great example of someone who fiddles with these knobs:

 

Here is angry cat:

 

 

Here is woofy dog:

 

[Bono]

Thank you very much everyone for your comments!!

 

Strengthlegacy and M.I.R, are you really sure you heard the original version? Lol..  thanks for your compliments, guys, I really appreciate it

 

Killer, thank you for you comments and demonstrations, very illustrative. In fact, at this point I am trying to build a pharyngeal voice or nasty sound, as some call, to keep weight off my voice and come more easily to the high notes. The fact is that while my brain already understands the difference between goofy and nasty sound, for some strange reason he refuses to apply it when I sing  btw, I heard some nice Amy Winehouse on your soundcloud page

 

Robert , thank you for your valuable advice and compliments!! I am aware that you treat these issues in depth in your method which I find very interesting

[ronws]

I liked it, bono.

 

As for Killer's demo, I do stuff like that all the time. I mean, ALL THE TIME. For me, it is always a good stretch. I find it helps to think of it like a knob, too, but my mental image is that of a resonance knob that goes from complete obnoxious nasal to the dopiest, most cavernous sound.

 

Sometimes, i will do it in a song. Maybe hold the last note and go through those variations.

[Bono]

Thank you Ron, I've never tríed these excercises before. I'll do to se how they work

[Sexy Beast]

Hey Bono it sounds good  

 

You are right about the vowels you do narrow them too much but not just in your mid and higher range also in your low range. Have you ever tried copying other singers? I mean really studying how they sing, form their vowels, phrasing, etc... pick a song and copy everything the singer is doing, do it phrase by phrase.

 

Your voice needs more "oomph" especially for the more intense parts of the song. You have a tendency to back off of your voice too much and disconnect a little bit around D4 or so: 0:35 "back", 0:48 "just" are examples of you disconnecting from your full voice. That being said you have a good lighter mix (much better than mine haha) 1:10 "can we find a way to finally make it right?" that was beautifull but maybe more appropriate for something like "Never Felt This Way" by Brian McKnight. For this song I would like to hear a more ballsy sound.

 

Also, if you are used to disconnecting from your full voice just below your 1st bridge, even just a little bit, you will most likely have a tendency to grab/squeeze as well because you don't have something stable that you can lean into.

 

@0:51 "out" - that vowels need to be more open

[KillerKu]

I gave this one a pure emotional listen, here, with no singing mumbo jumbo clouding my head, and I wanted to say I am really feeling it. I mean, yeah, I like to help if I can with technical mumbo jumbo, but you've got an emotional voice. You don't need to be perfect to move people.

[Bono]

Killer, I believe that the analysis and returns on the emotional aspect is just as important as technical analysis, because ultimately you sing to convey something to your audience not only to impress; at least that's my view. In that sense I am very pleased that, beyond my technical difficulties, you guys consider nice my singing

 

Sexy (I always feel weird calling you as well: D), yes, I've tried to study songs the way you suggest. The thing is that I don´t have many references of singers at this time. It happens that before starting to study vocal technique with a modern method I thought I was a baritone, not a tenor. As often happens, I was frustrated because not reaching high notes and being unable to sing the songs of my idols (all tenors). That led me to not sing for a long time. Until one day I began to accept me as I thought I was and started listening to singers within the vocal range I assumed to have by that time such as Josh Groban, Michael Buble. Then I started to develop a way of singing with which I am very happy for songs not very sharp. Then, a year and a half or so, I discovered, thanks to the internet, there are modern methods of singing, discovered SLS and started singing lessons via Skype. My vocal coach told me not to listen to josh groban or michael buble cause they were not good references for me; He told I could sing songs of them but he suggested that I listened to Stevie Wonder, Freddy Mercuri and other tenors. I found it very crazy because I feel that my voice is much heavier than theirs; however with vocalizations I began to reach incredibly high notes (maybe I can record them and upload for you to listen); But, as nothing is free in this life, now I can reach those notes but I can not put much of them into my singing so far, can´t find the same balance as when I vocalize. Plus, it seems that I have to get rid of some bad habits that, paradoxically, sound good but they are incoherent with the way I want to develop my voice.

 

 

 Sorry , guys , hope not dizzy or bore you with this long story

[m.i.r.]

Sexy (I always feel weird calling you as well: D),

I don't lmao!!!!

Have you seen the avatar of mr. Miami up there ha ha ha...

Anyways, bono like you I was poorly diagnosed one fach up from a bass originally. That set me back for some time. Fortunally, I refused to believe and got the range I have now. However, that did come at a price of still having some bad habits.

Range isnt an issue, but weird pronunciation at times is. Also weird coverings right before I hit pure head voice. Been working on those for some time slowly correcting and improving. Now this is the month I am going to finish the fix, and make that big jump. Have that bastard narrrowed down to g#4-b#4 lol, just gotta finish the killing. I am going to do that with a big gutsy change.

That was my point I was arriving to. Dont be affraid to attempt big changes and stick to them. Listen real carefully what issues are in your voice and what you want to change. Be very real with yourself. It sounds like you might have picked up some bad habits as I did, trying to be what you think you could only be.

One thing I learned and am still learning is. You have way more control over your voice than you think. Or at least I thought lol

[ronws]

Don't worry bono, I get the same thing. I sing a song and think I am heavy. And then I listen back and it is lighter than I thought. Because we do not hear ourselves as others hear us.

 

And, in the end, it doesn't matter what your actual fach is. Outside of opera, you can do whatever you want. Find the way that your voice does a song.

 

I will pm you a song I never thought I could do until I found the way my voice does it.

[aravindmadis]

Bono, I can totally relate when you say "It happens that before starting to study vocal technique with a modern method I thought I was a baritone, not a tenor"... I always thought that I was a "low" voice.  Never learned any singing formally so I was note even aware of terms like "Baritone" and "Tenor" till last year.  I started using the internet to improve(how I wish it was there when i was in my teens/twenties).  Now I believe that I have a much "lighter" and "higher" voice than I originally thought, before I learnt what "head voice" & "Bridging and connecting" meant.. If I listen to my recordings from even six months earlier,let alone a year or so ago, I know I have come a long way and I still have a long way to improve.  

 

It is amazing what Rob has done through setting up this forum and allowing singers from all over the world to interact.  Also it is refreshing to find people with similar passion and willingness to help without any monetary benefit.  Who would've thought in an ultra-competitive world it was even possible.   

[Sexy Beast]

 

Killer, I believe that the analysis and returns on the emotional aspect is just as important as technical analysis, because ultimately you sing to convey something to your audience not only to impress; at least that's my view. In that sense I am very pleased that, beyond my technical difficulties, you guys consider nice my singing

 

I agree with Bono! Let's say you can sing with low or medium low volume/intensity but you have trouble singing louder and more intense doesn't that limit you in your interpretation? Or at least in the songs that you can sing?

[ronws]

I agree with Bono! Let's say you can sing with low or medium low volume/intensity but you have trouble singing louder and more intense doesn't that limit you in your interpretation? Or at least in the songs that you can sing?

That would depend on your definition of loud and also, what is one's ultimate loudness at a spot and is it truly a weakness. And if it is, who says so?

 

Sometimes, we talk about finer and finer gradations of value until lost in a sea of minutae and I was just wondering how the definitions are holding up.

[Sexy Beast]

 

That would depend on your definition of loud and also, what is one's ultimate loudness at a spot and is it truly a weakness. And if it is, who says so?

 

Sometimes, we talk about finer and finer gradations of value until lost in a sea of minutae and I was just wondering how the definitions are holding up.

 

I think it's pretty clear Ron...

[KillerKu]

 

 Plus, it seems that I have to get rid of some bad habits that, paradoxically, sound good but they are incoherent with the way I want to develop my voice.

 

I agree with most of your post and relate. But be careful with this line of thinking. There's almost nothing you've done with your voice that doesn't have a good context at least somewhere. You sing good. Rather than remove the old habits completely, you can expand your artistic palette so to speak.

 

Say some habits sound great on your low notes, quieter passages, but just don't work on the high notes. Do something different for the high notes.  There isn't endless flexibility, and yes habits exist and define people to some extent. You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some of those habits are part of what make you, who you are.

 

We are all physiologically different, but if we all used optimum techniques all the time, singing could be robotic and boring. You've already got character, so if you just adopted Stevie Wonder's technique as closely as possible, most of the time, you might lose some. 

[ronws]

Sexy, I think you misunderstand me. We all say loud but what are we comparing to? An actual decibel reading? Or the piercing quality of a sound that may not be sonically loud but seems like it because of the tone?

 

There was a music producer who had a chart that dealt with this kind of the thing. The perceived volume versus the actual volume and how a frequency and our response to it might contribute more to a perception of loudness than actual bona fide loudness.

 

You said it was pretty clear, but it may not seem so to me. Perhaps you can teach me. I can sing loud enough that others think it is loud.

 

Another example, do you think Steven Tyler sings loud? Some of his highest notes actually sound soft, to me, though well amplified by the pa or whatever he is singing into.

 

ignore the variations in the sound levels of this:

 

[Bono]

Guys thank you so much for these amazing feedbacks!! I´ll record and upload a video of this song in full voice without compression nor other effect