KillerKu

  I think this could be a beautiful place for artists to get feedback and ideas on art of singing in the context of songwriting as well as technique. I know of basically no other site that is poised to offer such a thing with an active critique section already in motion.   As long as we have Ronws, all is well. Artistic types have been getting screwed over since the industry began by having our hearts on our sleeves. Singing dum contructs, being naive, not being business minded, etc. Luckily we've got a tough nosed biker turned laywer to set us straight.

I love the vocal timbre, love the phrasing, pretty much just love the vocals. Like the guitar playing, but not sure about the tone. Sounds a bit overwhelming in the mix. Is it straight digital into a box or miked? I've been struggling hugely with guitar tone lately, as volume limits kind of prevent a true amping solution and I've been trying all kinds of solutions to get a digitalized thing acceptable.   Are there any effects on the guitar, like reverb or EQ? Cause it's pretty badass, I'm just wondering if you could carve a bit more space on each side for voice and guitar. I suck at it too. I wish a pro would give us some hints on mixing vocals with electric guitar. They tend to love the same frequency ranges.

Great ear, Ronws. It is very soundtracky. Immediate sounds are significantly less important in movie soundtracks, so I wasn't even thinking of this.   Very good advice. Yeah man, copyright your stuff right now. It's good already. You're beginnig your path as a songwriter and you will be able to post anything here safely from this perspective. You can show us whatever you want after that, but protecting it first as is, is your best bet.

No sugar coating of any kind: it isn't ready for radio quite yet, but it isn't awful either. More than 30 seconds would be a lot easier to digest how to help you though.   Pitch was pretty good, harmonies were working, the voice was a bit 'edgy or pokey' which is partly production and partly your singing style which has a bit more of a nasal poke.   I'd need to know more about what style you're interested in. If you've interested in a Savage Garden style vocal, going into a lighter, headier voice, and doing a slight moan would be closer to this kind of sound. You could keep some of the nasality, but the phonation would be a bit lighter which would 'soften it.'   But what if you don't want ot sound like Savage Garden? And dude, 30 seconds, not enough. All I got.

Beautiful, sexy, sultry, fantastic, intricate, nuanced, soulful, flowing, caressing.   I'm ready for more. Not ready to critique though.   The best thing you can hope from me is to take just a little of how good this was and sneak a little into my voice if I'm ever this good....

This is a good performance. I think you're really onto a style that can go pretty commercial. Ronws was talking about the cry, and I got a bit of that in my vocal style so I might be able to help you out.   For technique I've got a place to isolate in this performance for polishing. On the 'oh' vowel where you say, "I'm on a pay phone trying to 'go' home" this part was unstable throughout the first few repeats. It was stabilized during one of the latter sections. The go would flop down, flop up, went a bit flat once.     Looking at it, and picturing it in my voice, I think I can see why as it's something I've done. The 'oh' vowel is a very shouty, chesty kind of vowel, which can make it a bit difficult when singing a softer plaintive style like you're doing here. What further complicates things is you're dropping immediately down from a falsetto passage (above a bridge area) directly into a really chesty vowel and stumble for a sec finding your footing.    If you were to tuck the 'oh' vowel into a bit more 'uh' it wouldn't be as pure of a vowel but it might help you stabilize, as 'uh' is a lot more friendly for this kind of plaintive style than 'oh.'   On another note, what kind of software are you using to record? Audacity? I'd really like to see if I could get you a decent reverb of some kind, cause if we could pull the dry out of your voice it would really help a lot. You sing poppish RnB a lot and you'd sound great with a bit of production. Anyway, overall it's a great job, not an easy song.

People in the prior thread were right. Your voice really fits well into a country themed tune. There is a richness in your lower register, you sound like you have a strong genuine baritone ish resonance down there. It resonates with more authority than my voice does, even if your resonators are less open. I'm a higher voice type.   You ever straight up tried Johnny Cash? I don't normally recommend him, as he is an icon and has a very powerful, effortless booming low register that makes me and most folks sound like a wuss, but it might be an interesting sound for your voice. I mentioned before your voice had a 'toughness, confidence, and composure' in your prior thread. Johnny has these qualities in spades, he could tell a a story and make you believe every bit of it. It could make you believe he had complete authority over the story.   If you were to explore this side of your voice, develop it, and take it to the next level. It could be really interesting. It's good to hear you, regardless.

  Trust your body man when looking around. Make sure you stay the expert. Even really famous teachers have hit people's voices wrong.  Someone, (MIR?) was talking about a bad experience with Tamplin. I'm not a famous teacher, just a guy.   I did enjoy your interpretation and would like to hear more. I ain't looking for perfection from you, just curious if you might find a bit more wiggle room that way.   Jonathon Davis in spite of his strange sounds is said to have had vocal training. I've seen it credited to as the lead singer of Videodrone. So you might want to look into help from a professional at some point too, but you canl make progress from training smart.   I suspect Davis learned to use his voice to make those weird shrieking and honking growls over time, pretty confident it wasn't overnight. If you're a Davis fan, don't be afraid of falsetto and headier voice either. It's one of his signature styles to my ears, is he will turn on that lighter twangier whining headier voice for a few words, and then honk out a low growl, sometimes in mid sentence. He's kind of a weird singer, maybe why I'm the only guy that responded. Most singers are like 'siiiiinging coooonsiiiiistant toooone.' Davis is like "shriek, honk, shriek yell!!!!!" Follow your passions, if something about this speaks to you, Davis is still singing today. He found a way to develop that style and you can probably develop yours too.   If you hit barriers you can't surpass, do consider a professional. 

I think a longer you might sell more records, but I personally felt those clipped yous had artistic value. To me it symbolized nearly giving up on whoever 'you' was, almost mid sentence. Strangely enough, after checking this (original) version: it was done similar.     So maybe Christina Aguilera and I do have something in common aside from loving Nina Simone and Amy Winehouse after all. I would have expected her to drag that note into infinity, hahaha.

Yeah this is good. Vocal was spot on. Stylistically when played acoustically it gives me vibes of Extreme's "More Than Words."   Mix was really pro too. You're poised for professional work if not already doing so. Whatever happens from here forth is gonna be up to how you want to approach the business (as a songwriter, cover artist, etc), how much you get out there and market yourself, and luck.

I love the timbre, your inflection, love the movement of the melodies, the harmonic structures, and lyrics are really your own.   The most helpful observation I can think of is the phrasing feels a bit quick and cluttered which could make the sound a bit less immediate to a listener. This is a stylistic thing, but if you were to add more space and let the song breath a bit more before entering a new line, and hold certain notes out a bit longer, I think some of these melodies could take a more call and response format, which would be more immediate to a listener's ears.   Forgive the text, but picture Picture like.   A dun dunnnnnnnn, da da da dadada dunnnnnn.............. (pausing, almost like a breath spot) a  dadadada   da  dunnn...,  dada da  duuunnnnnnnnn ....... (almost like a response to the prior line)   You see like variance in the lengths of the notes, and the distances? It can give the listener time to breath.   Harmonically, melodically, I really dig it. It's innovative, off in it's own nook. It might be able to be interpreted more immediately without losing the beauty and originality. If I get 'loud' time soon, I might give you a jazzy scat kind of interpretation.   Another thing with phrasing that helped me, was to take one hand and hold a down beat (1,2,3,4), and take another and tap out the words rhythmically like a drum, forgetting even the melody for a moment. A tip a tap, a tippity tap. Focus solely on the rhythm.   You mentioned Elliot Smith in a previous post. He tends to have more immediate phrasing than Drake. So if you're interested in the idea, you could take some inspiration in phrasing from Elliot, while taking some timbre and harmonic clusters from Drake, maybe getting a best of both worlds, immediacy with harmony.   Anyway, I love seeing your work up here. Just keep going. Keep writing. Keep singing. Your voice is already really good for this style of music. It's better than I could do. I really believe songcraft is a great thing for you to focus on. I'd love if you could find immediacy with listeners.

  HoundDog could get almost anybody pumped up, yeah. Rock on, MDEW. Good idea.

  You sound like you might be able to pull an open mic with the right crowd.If the crowds weren't like huge singing nerds and sticklers when you didn't sing the C28 or whatever. A lot of times open mics are kind of a more community thing, so people are happier to just share. It's not like you made a godawful racket that would have people running for the door.   If you want to take things a bit further than an open mic, keep training. You're in a good direction. Maybe try to work a bit more dynamics. Somewhere above an open mic might be like a coffee Shop kind of gig, where expectations might be raised a bit. You'd have to play them the whole song, unless you wanted to pull a stunt, like 'hey joe, where you're going........?' cut it off, walk off stage, and leave the audience baffled.     If I was a live performer I think I couldn't resist to do that at least once, but generally yeah, keep working on it dude. What you got is surprisingly solid, but in order to attract more attention it's not what you're doing, but maybe just a bit more pizazz of like dynamics in range, or volume, or something.

If you want to keep singing this way, and posting it. I'm cool with it personally, but you yourself have said it was pitchy. If you want that, that's cool. If you don't then you'd have to make some kind of change. Lessons would be by far the fastest way for your to improve. Sometimes people go off key cause they have too much constriction, other times it's musical error. Only you can really verify how much you have.   For constriction, if you are constricted, you'd either need to get as honest with yourself as you can (ego aside) and try to find a more relaxed, free flowing phonation, which sometimes isn't possible on our own, or get a professional who would help. For musicality you have a lot more options. Do you have some kind of instrument? If not can you download a trial of Fruity loops or some other kind of composition software (Anvil Studio was an older free one)? They have things called 'piano rolls' where you can move the notes up and down, listen to and sing along with the pitches, and compose music.   Basically to improve pitch from a musical standpoint, you'd play pitch games with yourself. Sing along to other things. Play what you sing. Back and forth, scales, intervals, melodies, harmonies and so forth. You can tune yourself to some degree this way.   I dunno man. You seem to be looking for improvement. People are giving you a hard time, maybe trying a tough love approach with you, or maybe just are annoyed. But fundamentally, you don't achieve goals by banging your head into the same wall. Sometimes you gotta find the door that you've been missing. It's possible you can find this door yourself, but it's faster when someone knowledgeable shows you.

  I agree. I don't have absolute pitch. Mine is better than most non musicians. But there is definitely a subjective element in pitch detection.   Just look at the new overtone thread (which I'm thrilled to see). People singing two pitches at the same time. One might be right on the dot, one might something else. I've called it very early on with your voice, that you have an unusual timbre. Even though I've decent pitch, I have more trouble dissecting your voice than I would another singer as I have to wrap my head around an unusual timbre to grab the fundamental. The timbre is foreign. It's cool though.   I've heard violin players can have good pitch 'on their instrument' but poor pitches on others.They are familiar with the timbre, and all of the overtones, but when exposed to something foreign, their pitch detecting accuracy can decrease.   I don't have absolute pitch with fundamentals and I can't dissect the overtones either. Maybe if you tuned a formant differently people would say you were in tune more often? Who knows?   Regardless, people drift. Sometimes intentionally even. Sometimes it's helpful to point out, other times (and imo more often) it's more helpful to try to give them mastery over their instrument so they can choose the note they want, whether we like it not.

You've got a natural swagger already in some of your phrasing. It's like a smooth controlled delivery. It sounds pretty tough and confident. I like it. I'd like to hear further into the the song as it ends a bit abruptly.   I know with Jimi Hendrix's version, he gets a bit higher and kind of lets it loose with a slight yellish sound? If it's an artistic choice to keep it mostly low key, I respect it, but if you have technical difficulties more elevated it might be something that can be assisted with.   To Jimi's version always sounded like the song is begun with a cool composure, as if he is observing Joe's actions detached from afar, or beileves himself to be above involvement in what he did, but as the song develops it sounds like Jimi becomes increasingly emotional and unhinged as the acceptance of Joe's actions are driven home. It's kind of like in the stages of grief, denial can help you keep a cool composure in the face of reality, but inevitably grief, anger, and sadness will hit.    So if it sounds interesting, you could think about continuing the song and expanding in one or another direction. It's pretty much up to you, but I thought you pulled of the cool composure really well.

  Nah, I've never tried that song. I'll be sure to check it out. I've got a friend who is learning to sing, but she didn't  have any female idols so she would lose inspiration. So I have this strategy of getting her hooked on girl groups. I've got quite the little catalog of female singers now to get her hooked. I've found singing along to women really helps me train my falsetto/head voice a lot too. It isn't a 60s girl group, but recently I was training to to my favorite Fleetwood Mac tune:        So yeah, you can sing girl group stuff in baritone/tenor/whatever or in a falsetto/head voice kind of setup. Don't be afraid to try mixing things up and even if it isn't a final sound you're looking for on your first try, it can be really helpful. I find it helps my chest voice.   Yeah, I was curious if some of those ideas would help. My voice feels most comfortable with a slight cushion in it. A lot of singers here sing with like a metallic tight closed phonation. I find that little cushion in my voice is most comfortable for me, but I think it depends on the singer and the style. My bridge is a little lower I think when I put that little extra cushion, but it feels more right.   I can hear pitch drift now and then on your performance, but pitch is a weird one. A lot of times it does no good to simply point at a pitch drift. I'm a drifter, both intentionally with bluesy rebellious pitching, look here:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_note    But other times it's unintentional and a genuine flub. I know Ronws would drift too. People would tell him. "Yo dude, entire song ain't pitch perfect!" But that doesn't really help." Cause it's like, well, what should I do differently? Which note? Where? Practice ideas?   I can help with some of the stuff I've discovered in training. For example. Step one, might be to take your guitar and simply sing as perfectly to the pitch as is possible. Use scales, melodies, different vowels.  Step two might be to try to sing the next note you're going to play before you play it. Visualize it in your head, then try to sing it correctly, and confirm it with a guitar. Step 3 might be to try to learn to sing any interval on top in perfect harmony? I've been working on step 3 lately, so I can get my harmonies spot on every time out of my head with no reference. I'm not there yet but am improving. It really helps to use an instrument for comparison.   Anyway, that kind of thing seems to be best solved with some extra training and self discovery. Good exercises, good musicianship. Ears, listening, all that stuff. You already got ears.   Nah it wasn't a conscious choice on picking Jerry Lee Lewis. I haven't actually taken on the Killer yet, I'll have to do that. But actually, now that I'm thinking of it, as little epitaph for this post. It ties in well with the pitch subject and roots rock and roll. I didn't take on the Killer, but did take on the architect himself:     Lots of blue notes in there. But you know, what? Sometimes that's just rock n roll folks. To quote Jagger, "I like it."

Never heard Korn duet with a piano before. It's actually pretty cool. I might prefer their music on a piano where you can hear the dissonant harmonies more clearly. I'm really liking this idea and looking forward to hearing more of your cover. Your pitch is pretty good considering Korn's almost atonal songcraft, for many singers it's tough to nail those kinds of notes..   On the singing, I can't feel your body or your singing, so if I'm innaccurate please just discard it. But for me there is a kind of voice that is almost like a cryish/moaning. There are a bunch of fancy names for it, curbing in Complete Vocal Technique (they call it kind of a hold), there's a mix voice in Speech Level Singing that includes it. I found this kind of moaning thing before I ever learned any of these techniques, you may or may not have?   Anyway, if I over do this sound, it feels a bit stiff. CVT calls it 'the hold' and it kind of feels ike it is 'holding me down.' Now the voice can do hundreds of things, many of which I cannot do. There's no way I can be an expert on what you're doing, I'm hearing you over the internet, of a sound you're creating inside your body. I'm not even an expert on the sounds in my own body.   Since I can't accurately measure what you're doing, I can only suggest what I'd try if I was creating the sound I'm thinking of? I'd first release as much of the moaning/crying sensation as possible, to the point where I might sound almost Mickey Mouseish. I'd try to get as light, free, and relaxed as possible. I wouldn't be super breathy, but I wouldnt' be worried about sounding silly.   I might then twang the Mickey Mouseish sound some. If you don't know what twanging is, it's putting the tip of your tongue at your bottom row of teeth, while the middle back part of your tongue arches up wide near your top molars. Twang can sound quacking, cutting, or witchy when done to the extreme, but if done varying amounts, it can help comfortably sustain notes. I'd let my my voice feel as free as I could make it. Once my voice felt less stiff and usually a bit 'lighter,' I could add some of the moanish thing back. The moanish thing helps me bridge and helps me sing higher if done lightly, but like I said can feel like it is 'holding' me down if It is done heavily.     All that said. If what you're doing works for you and feels ok, you can pretty much disregard the above and carry on. If you get lessons with a good professional, it can help progress much quicker. There are a lot of them on this forum. I'm personally not one. I'm just a guy who sings and likes trying to help others. If there is any chance what I said  could help you sing more freely, I'm putting it here. It's not the sound. I want you to sound, however you want to sound. IIt's that somehow, it's the same feeling of feeling held down by my voice, that feeling was oppressive. If somehow you got trapped in that feeling, it would suck. Seek freedom, one way or another.

I had to listen to the original song, as Ronws was saying it was altered in your rendition. I wasn't familiar with the original, so I had listened to your version and it sounded like a cohesive song as is. Then I listened to the original and was almost disappointed as the melody line you chose was maybe a little closer to what I wanted.   Some things I noticed about your voice: for a baritone range song, your voice has abnormal clarity which is cool. I think it comes partly from twang, nasal resonance, and you also sound a bit mixed forward which works. Your resonance is actually pretty strong as is in quite a few places. As mentioned, nasal  resonance is already pretty strong. If you wanted to experiment with a little more 'booming' sound you might be able to open up the area near the back of your throat a little more? It's a bit difficult to explain accurately, but for me the sensation feels almost like the beginning of a smiling yawn that 'expands not just downward but a bit sideways comfortably.' Another way people have described it is like 'minature egg sized opening in back of throat.' You sound like you already have a comfortable amount of openness, and anymore would be to tastes, but when I'm singing with more resonance that way that's one way I do it.   Another thing I noticed which might be interesting is the onsets of the vowels can sometimes have a lot of glottal attack. This is cool, can work well and is used a lot in various styles, but you might find it interesting to try an invisible H. When I say invisible, I mean very small, not breathy, it's almost like a tiny cushion. This can help you ease into a note. You could compare the sounds and sensations versus initiating the vowel 'suddenly.' Just know that some sounds require more or less airflow, so focus on the sensation in your body to steer you. Right now it sounds like you're making pretty big sound without loads of excess air which is pretty effective.   Another thing, is I noticed you are a fellow Ronettes fan. I was stoked when I found you singing Baby, I Love You. Ronnie Spector is one of my favorites. I cover her stuff sometimes and I enjoyed your rendition that segged into Brian Wilson/Beach Boyss Don't Worry Baby.   Anyway, basically you've got a pretty cool rootsy, laidback sound. You can keep training it as is and imo It will improve naturally to some degree as your foundations sound solid enough. You can increase agility and precision more quickly with some isolated vowel work (scales, intervals moving smoothly between both the same and different vowels). Loads of ways to increase range, which get covered a lot here (people write whole books on that, heh), but you're already sounding pretty good down there in the baritone range.

  Journey, Stevie Wonder, Whitesnake, Michael Jackson? 6 days a week, all the time locked on a boat? "We don't change keys, cause it's too hard." Professionals change keys all the time, to suit a singer's voice aesthetically but likely for health reasons as well. It sounds like you had 3rd rate musicians.   I think Ronws is right. You've got a pro voice, but that ain't a pro job. I've read about Adam Lambert's vocal coach saying they usually restrict his 'intense' songs to maybe 3 a night. To paraphrase: 'his voice can do amazing things, but it's like a sport, he has to rest as it isn't limitless.'   Maybe there are more tricks you can take to preserve it during demanding repetoire. I've heard repeated recommendations of using a lighter, twangier head voice over belting, say over a softer passage, which could rest some of the heavier coordinations. Don't give up on preserving as well as you can, but everything I've ever encountered from people doing extensive touring is pretty much all the same. A lot of people barely even speak the day before a performance to give it as much rest as possible. No matter how good you are, it is finite.   I've never been in a situation as demanding as the one you're describing. I hope I never am.Get your rest, and figure things out from there. Might be good seeing a professional to help you recover at some point.

It's a pretty cool listen. I'm not extremely familiar with the melody, but I think acapella you're altering it. It's not out of tune, but like sounds jazzy like you might be shifting a semi tone here or there.   I wouldn't be prepared to know what kind of voice type you have, especially given this vocal style you've presented. People with relatively lower voice types can 'lighten their voices a great deal' and sound very 'light.' As an example, something your voice reminded me of a bit was George Michael, who in my opinion has a pretty rad voice:     He sounds realy 'light' and high, but he's not like a super light voiced tenor like Stevie Wonder, imo. It's just in that song he was singer with a lighter coordination. When he uses his voice more engaged to resonate bit 'fuller', for example singing Stevie Wonder's own song you can her a lot more weight and fullness than Stevie at a similar age likely could even do.      Going back to W772, I'm unsure of where you want to go with your voice. So it's honestly difficult to give a direction of where to start other than 'vague training' possibly with a teacher.   If you were to twang this tone a bit and make it a bit less breathy, while supporting a bit better, it could get a bit more definition without necessarily losing the style. If you were to slide this town down repeatedly to your lower notes, letting it fully slip into a chest voice, you could get a better 'idea' of what kind of voice you have. There are ways you could take it more typical R n B by playing around with vowels and adding a slight moanish sound. You could learn to yell like James Hetfield, or do metal head voice like Geofff Tate.   But your starting tone here, is kind of just cool. I don't know if it's quite finished as is, but you could probably train, polish, maybe add some cool tweaks and make progress with this 'style.' In the meantime, I'd get a kick out of you singing George Michael. Here's my favorite of his songs "Freedom 90", in case you get the itch:  

  Chapman is a huge fan. It's awesome. Make sure you listen to his original here:     He's got his own identity while still channeling some similar emotions. He's onto something, maybe more than he knows.

That's my favorite kind of vibrato. The kind emerging from the subconscious when the singer is emersed in a song. Love hearing some of the breath restored.    I've been a crotchedy old man since I was 15 and rarely had affinity for my generation's music (I had to deal with Limp Bizkit and Britney Spears during high school years), so you're in good company in preferring the old school. I'm more interested in the younger artists here than the ones on the radio.   Thanks for delivering on the passion and doing a ballad on the level. You're not just a good singer, but your voice resonates with me. Some of it is stuff you can control, and soem of it is stuff you can't. When they come together it's great.

  Yeah, gain control today, so you can flip it on/off command and live to breath your way to the bank another day.   Anyway, treat it a bit like a sport or something. I don't mean competitive (no breathing contests with John Mayer! well maybe), but just like any other exercise, you might need rest from time to time. As an example you could do breathy singing, but speak less breathy. You can get more time for 'rest' that way.   I don't think you should get rid of it dude. I know why you kind of like it and I kind of like it too. It makes you distinct and could be a chick magnet. The longest term strategy is what you're doing. Aim for the end goal to be kind of like a switch you can just flick on and off. You can go far.

I really like your timbre and delivery. Thanks for choosing Elvis and putting a special wrinkle on it.   I personally feel like your style and voice is beyond criticism I can offer. It's like it exists on its own island in time and space. Detached from trends, detached from the hustle and bustle of modern life. It's timeless. It stands so distinctly, it doesn't try to be anything it is not, while succeeding at what it is. I feel a bit reverent of it.   I don't know what your life goals are so only you can answer where you want to go, but the best I know to say is my vote is to just keep singing passionately with your distinct voice. I can't guarantee you riches, fame, or anything like that, but having a voice like yours existing naturally without trying to fit into any trend has artistic value.   I know this is the critique section of the forum, but I don't want to deface art with dumb ideas. Maybe write some original music to go along with the voice and explore things that way? As is, it's otherworldly. If you aren't dying to change it, find the way you can best use it in the arts. Maybe create a legacy of material people can remember your voice by.