KillerKu

I'm listening man. I like it so far. You have a darker, slightly woofier tone than a lot of singers in this genre. which I like, but I imagine being more difficult to perform than a brighter twangier sound. Most records might mix it a little punchier, but I like the change of pace. You may consider brightening the area around singer's formant (2-3 kh) if you wanted to meet genre expectations on future projects as it sounds a bit distant which is relaxing vs tiring on the divide. I like raw vocals quite a bit, but it might be just a bit on the under-produced side, not that I could produce it better.   I also wanted to compliment the additional use of the harmonic spectrum with a clearer focus than a lot of modern progressive music. The use of arpeggios and cleaner tones allowed a broader width of harmony with clarity. I know from listening to more modern Dream Theater (Black Cloud Silver Lining was perfect example), there is like this 'syrupy sounding keyboard' throughout making this vague thick harmony, but it's kind of undefined and not very rockish. You're exploring more progressive harmonies without losing a clarity to the listener.   Your whole band are quite skilled, the bass player is quite the slapper. Guitarist has a range of styles. I appreciate not everything all of his playing being a root and fifth when he cranked up. Drummer is more skilled than I am for sure, very polished and keeps great time in numerous time signatures.   As a listener, my tastes veer more towards the Bowie side of artish rock, which focuses more on timbre alteration, and eccentricity, than choppier time signature alterations, like Rush, but I can appreciate prog as well. You guys do prog very well. Rainburn is a cool catchy name too.   Congratulations on getting your stuff out there and trying to get 'somewhere.' I'm wishing you well and thanks for posting.

It sounds good to me. You'd have to really listen to your body cause I can't tell. It's even harder for me to tell in female voices as it's further away from any benchmark I have first hand experience with.   The only things I can hear is maybe a tiny bit of potential vocal fry and a few onsets here and there, so it might be slightly less airy than some tones. But it doesn't sound 'pressed' to me. You could try experimenting with adding a tiny, tiny bit more of an invisible H sound (tiny cushion of air), but it's probably more stylistic than anything.   If it feels good, it sounds good. You probably know better than most of us. Voice isn't an exact science to a listener, so the best judge is often you.

Thanks for posting that link. They've got a huge amount of covers on a lot of different tunes. I think just listening to harmony singing can help harmony singing.   I'm huge fan of harmony vocals. It was a dream of mine back in the day to be in a harmony group like the Temptations, Beatles or Beach Boys. Given life circumstances, i wouldn't be a reliable singer for any group, lead or backing, so I just sing with myself from time to time. I still have so much love for harmony singing.   The mix on the barbershop thing sounds pretty cool. It looks like they panned them according to the screen order. If they were to include more instruments they'd likely have to dice up the EQ more as it's already pretty full.

I saw the original post about subject matter. I think it works at expressing what it is, as a mood piece dealing with a painful subject, but it's definitely on the artier side of song compositions. The level of dissonance reaches near atonality in places and the structure is not conventional in the way the melodies build or form. It doesn't provide a stable tonality for listeners. I hear lots of chromatic crawling of pitches which can often move a piece further away from commercial art forms.   It's appropriately short, as these uncomfortable emotions might be too painful for people to withstand for a longer duration. It communicates something valuable and something that artists should be saying, but it sounds like the subject matter, which could potentially repel listeners. Art imitates life, and when it imitates a painful subject, it can be divisive and people may not want to live painful experiences. I want you to keep making artier songs, but be aware of the way people tend to react psychologically.   If you wanted to send this more commercial, you'd probably need to anchor the key just a bit more. But I'm not sure you should. You might leave this as an art piece, that expresses exactly this subject, and write a new more accessable song. Maybe if you write more about the recovery process from a painful experience, people might relate to it by giving them 'release.' When you give them mostly tension, it's honest, but ultimately the average person craves the release more.

Wow, it looks effortless. Not saying it is, but it's so well done that it looks that way. He was pretty much spot on throughout and fully live. Thanks for posting, Rob.

I'm liking My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys. It does sound less eccentric to my ears, as your warm lows, sharply defined voice, and twanginess is more familiar in a country genre. It doesn't mean it is bad elsewhere, just eccentric compared to pop radio where vowels are usually less theatrical and sometimes softer.    I've never heard a vowel I didn't find some beauty in, but hearing your interpretation, I realized people rarely discuss short 'e' sound. I've never given it enough love so I explored the area in make you're talking about.   https://soundcloud.com/killerku/eh-ay-ee   When I modified towards more on that side of the spectrum and sang casually (light), I realized it sounded a bit like Stevie Nicks:   https://soundcloud.com/killerku/singing-with-short-e-vowel   Stevie Nicks is kind of eccentric on pop radio too, but that's why she is cool and why we remember her. An army of clones gets tiresome fast. I'm happy you've got time for singing. You'll leave a legacy with your training program and the students you are training, but also with your voice and artistry. I'd rather be remembered as a unique person with an identity than someone that was 'typical' in all situations. If you dig theatrical vowel usage and it speaks to you as an artist, use them, own them, and other people can use their own vowels.

I may be biased. You could sing almost any genre and I would probably like it. If you sang nu metal, it would be like a version of Evannesscance that I liked.   On the technique some of the runs are a little rigid and stilted, which could be smoothed out by slowing them down, singing them as soulfully as possible, and speeding them up (as soulfully as possible).   I think you have a voice that could sing the phone book. It's a very rich and beautiful thing. To my ears it transcends genre.

  Yeah man, you got to take care of it. Like cartoon character voice actors, be it dubbing cartoons, Sesame Street, or whatever, they make all sorts of crazy sound effect voices. I can do a really, really good Gollum from the Lord of the Rings. But they have to find the right way. If you've already been down this path, you know all to well.   The problem with those 'character' voices (even like Elmo and Grover, or Bart Simpson) is there isn't always a set technique of how to do it. So in some ways it's kind of a no man's land of voice. I haven't been in that industry, so I don't know how much mentorship is actually there.   Grit is a bit more documented and some of the singing programs and teachers can help you, but it's still kind of a mess. Some singers never find a truly comfortable way to produce it. There are definitely multiple ways and each singer's anatomy, psychology, and voice habits are different too. So it's very possible something I perceive doesn't work for someone else, or isn't even how I perceive it.   I have no discouragement from pursuing it when ready, but yeah, be prepared, and know exactly what up against. It's a cool goal, but be in it for the long haul.

  Ha, I'm American and sometimes my consonants get tongue tied. You pronounced all of your 'th' correctly everywhere else so it could be a fluke. It's kind of like a Z ish buzzing kind of sound with the tongue higher (at top row of teeth) and mouth more open. In order to teach my friend, I had to get her to stick her tongue out of her mouth. Looked hilarious.   Yeah it must be rough to have dual languages for folks here. I find it hard enough to sing in English. You're really good. You could pass for our pop singers here. So if you find a good opportunity, take it, succeed. I dunno what the Croatian music industry is like, but any exposure you get is good.   And you might take an interest in songwriting. Lots of pop kinds of singers get big by knowing the right rich person in the right place, right time and sing other people's stuff. But if your music scene isn't booming, you might need to do some do it yourself kinds of approaches.

Wow that's crazy distinct from the Elvis sound. It's reedier and thin.   Some listeners might find it a bit too different. I haven't made up my mind. I know carrying some lightness down or warmth up might make it more predictably gelled, but a good mic and further training into this style might be more what is needed than a huge stylistic change.   It has potential as a hook. I don't think I've ever heard this vocal style. Yeah, I think this reedy thing is cool. At least elements of this could be what you need. Sounds like you're already onto something interesting.

    You should be able to make this work as a really beautiful element of your style. It's possible to mix up the low end though. Elvis tends to be a darker toned singer, he has kind of lower larynx and a lot of warmth in his tone. I'm a huge fan of his tone, and it saddens me that there aren't many modern singers inspired by him anymore so on one hand it's a joy to hear you.   On the other hand, if you wanted to pull away a bit from his tone, you could experiment with brightness. Some ways to add brightness are using a higher larynx, increased nasality (try saying the word nya. like nyasal) and increased twang. I wouldn't advise you overdo any of those things as your voice is already dialed in to a beautiful sound, but if there was maybe an unprecictable part of your singing that was differentiated from Elvis, it could help. You could also toy with vowel placement. Elvis favors the 'uh' vowel. So does Jackie Wilson (kind of a higher version to my ears). If you were to blend a few other vowels into the tone as kind of 'root' points it might shift the sound if you're interested.   Basically, you could be the cool new guy, inspired by Elvis, with a new spin. It could be any spin, but it would have to fit your artistic identity. As an example, David Bowie will use kind of an elvis husky warmth and a nasally cat sound sometimes even in the same song. It's a hook that separates him from Elvis. If you could find any kind of hook that is meaningful for you, it could be enough. It wouldn't have to be any of my ideas, but it will definitely have to be yours so you can stand by it and believe in it. I do love hearing you here though. Please never lose the Elvis warmth. It's you, and it's beautiful, but expanding a little could help since it is that perfect.

  To be honest, I would start with just 'generic vocal technique' prior to jumping into the serious aggresive and angry styles for at least a bit. I know some singers here, even with a really long history of singing, tried rasp advice from other singers, and it didn't work out. I think it was Ronws. So you really need to take that stuff with a grain of salt.   There are multiple ways of getting that anger/aggressive tone. Some of them like twanging with a lot of compression in the voice, have been measured to occur more likely at the false folds of the voice. Others seemed to potentially come more from the real folds. The ones that come from the real folds can potentially be damaging if done incorrectly.   It's not that it can't be done healthily, but it's pretty tricky and having a good solid foundation of the vowel placement, breath control, and tone is an easier baseline that doesn't tire you, strain or anything is a good base line without having a teacher.   I get rasp in a way that doesn't tire me and I also like the sound of, it's kind of like a weird vowel shift that I hit (I'd recommend playing around with vowels for everyone), it helps to twang, it helps if the larynx is a bit higher, there seems to be an alteration in compression or air flow, and it sounds best if there is a bit of plaintive thing too. For me it's a complex interaction that I probably couldn't articulate for an advanced singer that skillfully, much less someone who isn't highly experienced in a way that they could safely apply.   So when you are ready to pursue it. My best advice, is to not brute force it. If it hits you wrong, change your approach.I've had rasp sensations that felt plain bad. The key would be to not repeat ones that feel bad. And search for something that doesn't cause any hoarseness or strain.   One of the qualified teachers like Rob, Daniel Formica, or also Felipe would have better skill and advice and if you don't find something comfortable that works for you. Someone with a proven history of teaching rasp would be really good to seek out. I know how to do it in a way that feels bad, so I know it's possible. And I'm trying to help you while looking out for you too.   For me at least, there seems to be more than one component involved and the stars align in a way that I don't go hoarse. There's a little bit of a buzzing sensation above my larynx. Even with a teacher, you'll have ot listen to your body. If I know how to do it in a way that feels bad. It doesn't necessarily 'sound' that different from the one that feels good (feels higher in my throat, rather than lower). Even a trained expert, might not be able to judge your body. You've got to be really aware of it.

Something about the fade in makes me dig it a little extra. You see, dude, you came to the wrong forum, not cause it isn't groovin. I like the vocals and I like the style.   Pitch doesn't sound bad to me. But I just suck at mixing man. To be honest, most of us do. Your voice is really promising though and I think you should use it more.   Your composition has a lot of potential as a soundtrack for kind of an urban setting in a video game, or movie, or something too. I wish I could help, but we need to beg engineers to come in and help us man. Stick around and you might be able to help us more than we can help you.   By the way, singing softly is one of the ideal ways of recording harmonies. There is a phenomon called 'chainsaw soprano' effect. For the longest time, I thought I was singing out of tune when really singing more hardcore vocals and was going tone deaf cause my voice wouldn't 'blend' into a harmony. But when singing with a lot of twang (tongue tip at bottom row of teeth, arching up and backwards so it is wide and pressed against the molars) the voice takes on a lot of extra frequencies that can make even a real choir blend poorly:   https://sites.google.com/site/vocaltechniquetips/advanced-techniques/twang-pros-and-cons   Harmonically, the frequency ranges of some of the more 'aggressive' styles of vocals can really fight with each other even in a real choir setting. It can be 10 times worse when recording close micced, as the frequency spectrums double up.    So it may have been a sign of good ears, that you chose to sing softly. I've had a lot more success if I take a lead and give it more 'oomph' but a lot of times the backing just needs to 'blend.' I've seen it specifically recommended when 'double tracking' vocals too that if one has a lot of 'bite' have the other one breathier. Went completely against my instincts as a singer, to just have every voice equally aggressive.   My advice to you is to stick around, learn to sing. Seriously.

I have no idea how you do Elvis so well. Like most people who love his voice I've thrown out an Elvis impression, but you are uncanny.   It sounds great, and when you get the input levels it will sound even better. I guess the real question is where do you go from here? It's a great sound. Would you rather go the direction of an Elvis inspired singer or someone that definitively reminds people of Elvis?   You're really gifted at this. There used to be a market for Elvis impersonators back in the day. I don't know how things are now. If I was told that was a damaged recording of Elvis and didn't konw about digital clipping and how it relates to analog damage, I might have believed it.

I'd put some reverb on that vocal. When it's with the tracking it sounds very stiff in the track.   One little tip I've got, is I have a friend who grew up like many of us did with James Hetfield. We tried to get him to sing a song, and the song included likes of eyes, cries, sighs, etc. He literally could not sustain a long i vowel to save his life. eye yeeeeee.  Sigh yeeeee. Myeeeeee. Dieyeeeee!!!   So I know James does it all the time and if you want it stylistically you should go with it. But don't let it become a habit. So early on in your training try to find a sustained point in the vowel that depicts it. There's a little spot in the vowel before it becomes a full eeee sound, which can be sung and depict it pretty well.   Overall, it isn't perfect yet, obviously, but it's not too bad either. It's a little pointy in the mix. I think James uses a 'tiny' bit more air and less pure twang, with a slightly more open throat (5-10 percent of a yawn maybe)? He also modifies towards 'ay' a lot. So if you start with that vowel (yay, hey), and lean into other vowels kind of like that is a 'home base' vowel, you couild get closer. Ultimately, you'll probably just want to sing your own style.   He's not a technical virtuouso, and there is no need to copy him, necessarily, but it could give you a bit of something to toy with as you train.

I agree, Ed, tmacuf's either secretly been training like a madman prior to coming here or singing is more intuitive for him than it was for most of us.   A cool modern soul kind of group would be good. If you're a Ben E King fan, he started with the Drifters.     I'd love to see you out there bringing the soul with a group.

Both are really quite good. Both are already a good pop sound too. I think the pop version is more polished, maybe it was a bit easier to do it that way. The other one is good, but it still has a bit of room to get more controlled with training where as the pop one sounds pretty much ready for radio.   Little note, you're from Croatia? Is it common for most people to say 'dt' instead of 'th' there? I picked it up the second version when you said 'three' it was more like 'dtree.'   I have foreign friends and this is one of the biggest little accent things around the world. One of my friends was shocked when I showed her the way we do it cause no one else in her entire country had done it that way. Otherwise, your accent is spot on and works perfect. So even as an American, I'd likely never know. It just shows how far you've come. Great voice, man.

I love your voice. There is a cool slight nasality in the very first section that prods at my ears and gives you some 'edge.'   You showed a lot of breadth in vocal styling already in this. Softer breathier passages more like Sarah Mclachlan, more stirring and intense passages more mirroring some of the current crop of popular female soul singers. You even touched on an Amy Winehouse esque tone when you said 'sometimes it hurts instead' with the phonation and melissma. Your vibrato is completely free, unpredictable and is one of the more beautiful I've heard.   The yodel thing is beautiful. You can work on your bridge more. But... I don't think you should stop that thing. It helps define you.   Anyway, your voice touches one so many things, that when coming together really just 'completes' you as an artist to my ears. Mclachlan lacks bite, Adele to me can sound a bit throaty and predictable, Winehouse could sound drunk (she's my favorite of the three partly for this reason). But with you, you have a little bit of everything and so much to offer. So many textures and emotions. If you were to delve into all of these timbres on an album, you could really hold my attention.   It's like a painting, you can use each timbre to express each color and shade it in for us to hear scene you're depicting. If I ever write a really good soulful love song, I might give it to you.   The only thing I'd suggest, is when doing a duet of some kind, like during the last sectionm consider panning (using stereo left and right) or EQ the two vocals, as they are in the same frequency zone. The way sound works in when recording two separate takes isn't like what would happen if we cloned you and recorded you and your clone at the same time. Every time something is recorded, it gets a 'full frequency' range in the mix. And when you add a new ingredient, that also gets the full frequency range, and when they 'stack' they get cluttered.   Anyway, by all means train your voice. But I would really consider how you might get connected into the music industry. There has been a boom of female soul singers with character, which is one of the few things in the modern music scene that has interested me. Someone like you could have something very interesting to offer, if you could make the right connections.

I missed the original go. It's awesome hearing your voice in a new context. Thanks for being brave enough to show us.   It's extremely unique. I don't think I've ever heard a ballad with this much twang and without many breathier passages. Your vowel choices are all your own too. You say 'make' la bit like ike 'mehke' and more than oe of your mes skews towards 'meeehr.'    You're in Seattle now, but where did you grow up? Was some of your vowel choice part of training or upbringing? Regardless, your singing journey has ended up with a strong identity, Rob. Keep singing songs, I know you've got to train others, work on your program and teach which takes up most of your time, but no one sings like you.

There's this kind of booty shaking quality to this. I don't normally like this genre all that much either, but there is a rhythmic swagger that I find kind of amusing or upbeat.   The vocals are technically indistinguishable to my ear from other some in this genre so I think if it doesn't hurt you're succeeding, which is cool. I don't mean your voice isn't you, just that it would 'fit into this genre' without any red flags.   You are using Recabinet for a cabinet sim? I have version 3, and use it all the time, but I've never gotten this much of an authentic metal guitar sound from an amp sim. I'm going to look into your amp model, cause this has been irritating me. I don't play metal often, but my amp sims suck for palm muting and this sounds very chuggy.   Anyway, in spite of the 'not live instruments' and 'not original singer' when I compare this to the original version, I still kind of liked yours better. It's like almost disco or dance ish metal. It's a fun track, man. Thanks for posting.

I saw the original post. I too have depression and have since childhood. I'm on anti depressants and am forced to be at this point as they as there are certain kinds of them that are effective for nerve pain. On the meds, I still have suicidal feelings. They may not remove the depression. I have no judgment at all for you at all, man.   But you're a great songwriter, and the thing about depression is it is like a 'different' mind space. You create from a different place, but you also judge from a different place. So you've created a piece of art from this unique mind space, right? And then you judge it, like 'my 'weak falsetto' and 'frustrating voice,' meaningless songs. If someone else hears you from another mind space, they have different thoughts.   What I hear is a truly abnormal clarity in a breathy voice in your recordings, not falsetto. I've sung many times, in many styles. My voice has done a ridiculous diversity of things, but I've never gotten a breathy voice as 'clear and defined' as you already do. I don't know how much is singing, mixing, recording, but it's like even a near whisper from you sounds strong and defined, articulate, and confident. I can make really loud high pitched noises, that would be audible to a neighbor a few houses away, and it can lack the strength of your whisper.   You can feel like a song isn't up to snuff or was losing meaning. But I showed it to my friend and she said she really liked it. I listened to it like five times. You have people ready to buy your album. It's not really childishness, I've been there, so I know how it feels. But you've got good thing going for you man so I'm glad we're here to remind you.   Onto the song itself, part of what made this one it refreshing and exciting was the increased used of strumming patterns mixed into the composition, interspersed with your finger picking style. It had gallop, like a trot, and 'different kind of energy.' Your phrasing was also paced in a way that didn't rush my ears. It felt like I was galloping along with your tune, and riding the waves of your vocal melodies. I could emotionally connect to it, and in some ways it might be connecting to some of your depression that was involved in its creation. There is a sense of 'questioning the mirror' in the song.   Seriously though, you have something really unique. Your writing style due to sparseness of using an acoustic and vocals, are probably mixed pro enough to release too. We don't have to fit drums, bass, keyboards, strings, backing sings, and all that into the sound spectrum, to get you pro man. So you can just make an album of exactly what you're doing and it has value. Keep going man. Don't feel bad, but don't give up either.

Wow, Youtube comments were finally right for once. It does sound pop punkish. Anyway, it's good. This song is well suited to you and pretty much works with your style and range.   Mic proximity is really the most useful for those low notes, but another is you get 'woofy' down there. My voice gets woofy when my larynx is lowered and throat is open, without twang to compensate. Woofy is a cool sound imo, but if you want more clarity to match the top you could try to keep a bit more twang (tip of tongue at bottom row of teeth, arching back,  upward and wide up against the top molars). It usually adds more 'brightness, cut, and clarity.' Once I learned to 'keep' my tongue high, I could still use a low larynx sound without always going woofy.    I guess the question is where you want to go next? If you aren't already bridging, you seem ready to go that direction as your chest voice is already doing pretty well. You might not ultimately even have to bridge for this style, iIf I recall correctly like Green Day's album, "Dookie" had a whole lot of enthusiastic chest voice which had a lot of energy, but bridging is a lot easier with less limitations later on. I think he may have learned how to bridge later on albums I like less than Dookie, but it's probably not the bridging's fault, heh.   But yeah, you sound pretty comfortable, cool style, and probably ready to just proceed to whatever your next steps are. Your chops should be improving from regular practice, but a big part of things is just where you want to go. Nice job man. I grew up on some pop punk. Love me The Clash (roots punk) and some Stooges (Raw Power specfiically, proto punk), but it was pop punk that first caught my ears growing up. It can be a cool sound and since it is intuitive for you, it could be a successful direction to go.

Nailed it.

Yeah this is more polished and your best version. It does have a star quality gloss on your timbre. Just keep singing. You're already doing pretty most everything right.   It's cool cause it's mainstream, but I also like the soul. You've got mainstream sound that also conveys emotion well and doesn't sound manufactured. Figure out what singing means to you and how you want to fit it into your life.   I'd maybe look into musicianship and writing songs so you have an extra angle. But if you find a good pop platform, you might be able to go somewhere popular singing other people's tunes. You're not super old, unless the ladies disagree, you look like you could be a pop star. I'd look into this stuff from other angles than just technique. You can improve your singing, but you're young, it sounds good, and yeah.   By the time you become Dio you might be an old man, right? So you gotta think about seizing the day in the relatively nearer future.

Nina was almost superhumanly human to me. She was so purely her own person as an artist and no one could shake that purity no matter how hard they tried. Whatever doubt she had never came through in her performance.   She could cross any barrier, genre, race, gender, anything and communicate almost anything from the heart. I can't think of an emotion I've ever felt that she couldn't find some way to channel into her singing and she found a lot I've never felt. I'm glad you can feel some of the same strength. I'd love to hear you interpret her song, exactly as you say, just like you.    I sing My Baby Just Cares For Me myself. The cutest thing about the song is it is already bisexual (includes men like Liberace and women Lana Turner).   https://soundcloud.com/killerku/mybabyjustcaresformeacapella   'What genre is that?' Well.... It's kind of a middle finger to genre. It's what I felt for the song... I felt explosive, exhilarating emotions. I became a character in the song and those feelings were colored by tenderness, happiness of someone looking out for me. Next time I might feel fragile, delicate, or softer emotions, but still feel that security of someone who cares for me. Same song. That's Nina to me, she would channel human emotions and was so free.      But you've got a more intuitive grasp on singing than I do giving us an equal amount of knowledge. You've got your health. You can take your inspiration into the pro field and use it to keep your confidence when times get rough. I'm glad the driving forces that lead Nina are still living on in performers, who have the bravery to be vulnerable, and channel 'who they are.' I hope modern audiences aren't too far gone into Disney princesses going increasingly nude to appreciate it for what it is. But it's great you're getting gigs, and you've got a band set up with an upright bass player. I hope there will always be room for 'you.'