KillerKu

  I would have never picked this up in a million years. Is this the Speech Level Singing stuff? You two in the secret club. Laryngeal control, no shout. I liked it Bono.   For my tastes, I might have preferred even more shout, so I dunno what to say on a technical level as it sounded pretty controlled. But I'm not about to say 'stop controlling your voice so much' as singing advice on a singing forum.   How does it feel in your body? I guess that's the question, if you were to follow Sexy Beast's advice and compare it to what it felt like to sing? What did it sound like to you? Very interesting.

  Wow, that's really ignorant. You're already have some foundational aspects of singing. Did you know some beginners like literally, don't hit a single note in tune, strain a whole lot, and can still tackle singing and be declared 'singers?' You're way closer than a lot of folks who have made this journey.   I can totally hear the song in there, it's just quiet and hesitant. I bet you sing quieter cause of ignorant people like that trying to deflate you. Some have compared singing to having your body be this balloon, that gets filled with air (breath support), and you just kind of release teh air in a controlled way. If people deflated your balloon, we gotta fill that sucker back up.   You should try some breathing exercise. My favorite that I advise to people here, is the invisible (or real) straw. Suck in through an invisible straw, feel engagement below your chest and above stomach (diaphragm) and hiss out the sound, while trying to keep the sensation of engagement. It should be relaxing and make you feel light headed.   Yeah, people will try to deflate you man. You gotta fill back up physiologically and psychologically and prove em wrong. You can do it, seriously. 

  Yeah, a lot of the technical mumbo jumbo leaves me cold. When I sing most intellect goes out the window, and I run through emotions. Not everyone likes the results.    You seem like a 'natural' talent more than I ever was so I wasn't sure how educated you are.   Still, even for a more natural talent knowledge can be can be really useful, especially in preserving the instrument, or targeting a problematic area. There are different types of teachers, some are for teaching people how to 'sing' from the ground up, and others are for 'preserving styles.' Currently successful singers often by necessity need the latter (if Bon Jovi sung like Pavarotti his record sales would dip, ha). I feel like you would benefit more from the latter as your sound is already so good already.   Funny you mention femininity and thinking you sounded more epic. I really love femininity in both male and female voices. A lot of my favorite singers are/were fearless people who will 'go wherever' the songs emotions take them and aren't very concerned with gender roles. Freddie Mercury didn't care at ALL if people thought he sounded feminine when recording this classic:     And I've observed gay singers often seem to be really open minded about singing sounds that aren't 'very thick and manly.' I suspect it's cause they have less of an ego to protect about their masculinity. to my ears, it benefits music.    On the opposite side Nina Simone would roar in a tenor range when the song called for it her voice was up for it.     Nina came from an oppressed background, she was told she wasn't white, beautiful, or feminine enough even by her manager and record executives. She held wounds her entire life about it but when it came to performing she didn't care to sound prim and proper. She sang from the heart and didn't let anyone tell her how she was supposed to sound.   I think oppressed minorities have less to lose by making brave sounds. Societies already undervalue them, so what good is it to be a 'good boy or girl' and make 'prim and proper sounds?'    Anyway, I wanted to tie those thoughts in, cause one of the things I admire about your voice, is a little bit of 'murky depth' even in your breathier style. So I think you have more depth than you think. A less breathy sound would allow louder, thicker sounds, sure, but even with your current style, you might not be hearing it the same way we do. You seem to be a natural talent, so follow your passions, and if I could suggest anything, just don't worry about expectations of enormous sounds or small feminine sounds. It's all beautiful, all yin to yang, white and black, all that stuff. Sing from the heart. There are a lot of sounds people can passionately believe in so you don't need to worry about having some 'role' you need to fit in anymore than Freddie or Nina. Historically folks trying to box in Freddie or Nina were wrong. Be you.

  Interesting, he sounds perfectly in tune to himself, but sounds 'slackened or weird with the track.' That's why I expressed uncertainty as it sounds spot on if he was solo isolated.

  Hahaha. Yup, so much spam. You've got the super pro voice dude, but even that can't save you from the spam guy.   He's offering to teach you how to sing, to boot. Must be a pretty good singer, that guy.

Yeah, you've got great finger style man. I like it a lot. I almost praised it, but wasn't sure if it was you. Dave Mathews has a cool laid back sound. If you chase comfortable sounds it will help you a lot. You won't need to be wailing quite yet.   17? Yeah, plenty of time. That's great, some of us are have had more years pass by than others, but generally speaking, the younger you are, better your chances commercially. That's sad, as older folks can make beautiful art, must be some fault in our psychology to want to listen to the youth at the expense of our elders.    So keep training man and glad the advice could help.

I'm getting a pleasant vibe and you have a cool sound in your comfortable lower range. The bridge is a bit rough, but I've heard worse (mine, at one point, ). It really sounds like you're exactly at a point where you'd really benefit from some kind of technical advice. Like you've made a lot of progress on your own, without developing horrible habits, but things are still not in quite an area that functions how you intend.   Lessons would be great a kick start. So if you can afford or are interested, it would be a fast transition. A slight yawn and whatever amount of twang assists with your singing might help your bridge grow more comfortable while maintaining and developing this current style. If you take just the beginning of a yawn, like a slight openness, for me it opens my tract into a more comfortable, less talky position.   If you learn to twang (tip of tongue at bottom teeth, middle back of tongue arched back near top molars) this can help maintain brightness, stop that tiny bit of yawn from going dopey, and generally just makes singing notes easier for most folks when they get it down. If you do a twang right, it can sound a bit cackly or quacky.   I don't know what your long term goals are as a singer and honestly you might not know yet either. Those are just things I feel like would help you possibly use a sound similar to your current style comfortably while you try to figure out what your longer term plans are (teachers, styles, etc).   It's coming along, but if you can get it a bit more comfortable up there, falsetto will sound good in this acoustic style.

  Alright, yeah I wasn't sure. I do think a proper bed track would help a lot. That does sound like a worst case recording scenario. We'll get a better picture sometime soon.

Dude this is a hard song. I've got a question. The way your voice is combined with the backing track sounds weird, but is it a little flat?   Now, I've heard it said before by people with better ears than I that Stevie Wonder sings slightly 'sharp' on average. Not a huge amount but just a bit, like rides on top of the song. I think I might be able to hear it, he never sounds 'slack' ever, always sounds 'uptight' a bit, right? I've never actually grabbed a tuner and my ears aren't fine tuned enough to detect it.   So if you take this song for a spin on the next practice session, try to overshoot the notes a hair. Like ride a little on top. See what it sounds like. I'm curious.

Ok... Starting off here. I'm not pro vocal coach. And if this suggestion sucks, throw it away.   I'm hesitant to touch that voice that I admire in any way. Having you here is like having a classic radio station. But I have a suspicion both issues might be related to your vocal style on both parts. Breathier sounds in general dry the throat quicker by blowing more 'air' across the area. Think about other wet surfaces, how blowing air can dry them a bit. The voice is similar, breathier voices are in generally more tiring and drying.   A breathier vocal style can also lower the break point where you might transition to a falsetto ish (yes women have it too!) due to excess pressure from breath and not enough closure in the vocal folds. You mentioned in another thread envying another singer's high notes, and as far as I'm aware the voice will hit a wall at some point where range is limited due to breathiness for these reasons. So when we include breathy qualities, we always sacrifice some range in favor of style.   So my first suggestion is to please don't stop singing with the sexy, sultry, breathy tone, (pretty please?) and abandon it in favor of squealing high notes once you learn the trick. I really like your voice. But maybe look into experimenting with less breathy phonations that you might be able to work into your style as well, and learn how to control the amount of air a bit in your voice?    The most efficient exercise I know of for quickly finding a less breathy phonation is to say a vowel very very very very quickly. Like as briefly as you possibly can. 'O' instead of 'oh.' Turbo quick, quicker than you think you can do. Most people will automatically make a less breathy sound. The most important thing is you need to make sure the phonation still feels relaxed and comfortable as you can push the voice too far and 'press' the phonation. You want a comfortable tone that works well for you.   Anyway, from a really short vowel you can gradually extend that sound out. If you do that onset exercise, you might hear a little tic, (glottal action, you can hear this in like country and pop singers sometimes when they onset their vowels) which in the long term is probably not desirable for your style. So you'll likely want to include an invisible, very tiny H (so small as to be almost not there) to soften and cushion that sound.   Basically, that's the best I can do for you as 'random singing guy.' You should probably get a great teacher if you don't already have one since you are starting a professional journey, a professional to keep you healthy and spot check you would be really valuable. I'm not gonna be a pro and I'm fairly poor, so I'm gonna sing as an amateur as carefully as I can. I make sure I never go hoarse and my goal is to have improvement in my voice every time I sing.   But you're already going pro with gigs! So you need to take extra care of your pro instrument. And thanks for sharing, I love it, including the crack. They are endearing whether you like them or not.

  My ears aren't perfect man. I couldn't sing this frantically even with your tuning and suspect my pitch would suffer, I think. So it was meant honestly and not sugar coating.  Didn't sound 100 percent spot on, but I figured better than I can do given the same material, so 'pretty good' was like... 

Having been around the block with my own health problems, (seemingly some kind of nerve pain, neuropathy, neuralgia, etc) and not mechanical, I can testify there are speech patterns called 'functional dysphonia' in speech therapy.   Now I'm a rebel so I don't like people telling me to how to speak. I listen to others as equals, but if someone claims authority I'll question it until I am convinced they deserve it. But by most speech therapy standards if your voice is effective in daily life, it isn't a problem in need of being fixed, Ronws, and any change would be a lifestyle choice if anything, not a medical issue.   Even if Bono was correct in his theory, 'optimum phonation' is a theory of how to mechanically use every aspect of the body for maximum efficiency (air flow, fold closure, muscular involvement, to achieve a desired effect in a healthy way, etc). Not all functional dysphonias (less than optimum mechanical usage) need to be fixed and all but the most hell bent speech therapists would probably agree with me.   Now I did encounter some pretty horrific speech therapists. One was extremely arrogant and pretty much was saying, "I know you speak wrong. If you don't start speaking correctly there is nothing you can possibly do."   Instead I got on meds that treat nerve pain (neuropathy, neuralgia). They aren't pain killers either. Things improved so much. I can speak much more  efficiently again without those enormous jolts of pain. My last ENT visit his words were 'beautiful.' Doctors, family, and friends were astonished. Point being a lot of people along the way were convinced they had the answers and the authority to tell what was wrong with my body and a lot of them were supposedly authority figures.   Now I sing with you guys. I speak every day to friends and family. And I'm telling you this cause we're both gonna be there on that collaboration Ronws, whether we have the most immaculate phonation or not.   So Bono, it's an interesting theory, I like the intrigue and liked your post for that reason, but Ronws, I think it's less likely your phonation is 'wrong' if you aren't in pain or going hoarse and people can understand you. There is even transgendered voice therapy for people who want to sound like women healthily. There are a lot of ways people can speak. You may find an expert who is hell bent on knowing exactly how you should talk, but if it works, what the hell man? And even if it's a little quirky, it's a bit more of a wonderful world:     Final note, to try to be balanced, I'm not trashing speech therapists through my bad experiences. They are useful and helpful. Studying a maximum amount of efficiency from a biological standpoint can help people more efficiently use their voices. But efficient speaking isn't all there is. There's another side of this where people can get so hung up on their idea of perfection, they can't see the forest for the trees. You've had your voice whole life, it probably works if it hasn't caused you any major problems.

  Yeah, I can't add rasp to my highest range without occasionally crazy results (they sound cool, sometimes). I think I have a more creaking soulful style rasp (I can pull a pretty mean Little Richard) and metal vocalists often have the over twanged distortion kind (like Dio). Once my voice thins out, whatever I'm doing 'shifts' and I have to rethink it.   This stuff you're doing is really hard any way you look at it. It's expected to find a bit of strain from time to time when exploring, but the best you can do is try to 'go away from it' whenever possible, keep searching for less strained, right? These more extreme phonations aren't found in every day life, it's uncharted for most people, including myself. I just bombed out on a Journey song in the "how to sing like  Steve Perry thread' to test the waters with some upper ranges. I never sing up there, not really one of my life goals currently, but I do know there are all kinds of vowel mods that I don't do to keep things under control.   So I have vague ideas of the kinds of things that are going on, but it's a really extreme coordination. If you can afford it, keep in contact with a expert from time to time. In the time between, keep doing your stuff, but you've gotta look for the one that isn't strained and still gets the sound you want.   Final thing, I think all singers of any genre have to consider, is sometimes how 'weighty' it 'feels' is different from how it sounds. Without any vocal technique knowledge at all, I would anchor from like my toes and just like have a heaving mass of weight that couldn't quite bridge. But if range is at all important, thelightening process is part mental man. I've never bee up there with Halford, but I'd imagine the same concepts will apply for the rest of your time with voice, that you'll have to separate a little of how it feels one way or another as otherwise you might keep grabbing for that extra weight. Sometimes it sound good, but other times it just holds you down.

Tone is good. Range is good. Pitch is pretty good, although some of the runs were really frenzied, certainly faster than I could do accurately.   Clapping/slapping/whatever sounds really weird, cause it's so sparse and I was listening to the vocal kind of in it's own meter. The clapping effect exaggerates the changes in time, I think.  So maybe make sure you clap at regular intervals. 1,2, Clap, 4, (faster) or (1, clap, 2 clap) every time?   For my tastes, I'd tone down the runs a bit on this type of tune. Like you said, it's a bit of a ballad, you may be more accustomed to the faster moving tunes and still applying a bit of extra movement.  That said, if it works for you, I'm not one to say you shouldn't either. You're a good singer, I suspect a little more restraint might connect with ears a bit on these types of tunes. One thing that might be cool is just grab a metronome.   You sing pretty well acapella. I'm a drummer so I've got pretty good meter when I set my mind to it, but I've also got health problems that can make meter a bit more difficult as sometimes vocal rest desirable. If I set up a metronome it forces me to sing on the meter no matter what. You could clap to it as well and learn to syncopate your movements. The claps, snapping, slapping, whatever, just the jive, could really get us swinging, it's a cool idea, and I like the spur of the moment passion that could bring them out.   So keep singing, keep posting man. Good voice.

Wow, I don't think a composition like this has probably ever been made before, ever. I love how you can explore these darker, mystic harmonies and still find beauty. You can shade the song different directions, without it turning into a horror story. I do feel more space and air in your delivery from the last tune, which gives it a different flavor, a bit less rushed on my ear.   I I really appreciate some of the increased dynamics in the vocal delivery. I feel like it's a wider emotional journey than the prior two songs. You've included your drawl from your first song, some the falsetto ish sections from the second which are very haunting and beautiful, but you also have a swelling subtle roar that really builds tension. I think that subtle roar is one that could really be expanded on. It's like your upper medium chest voice area. It's not a huge technical thing you're already doing it, but just when you boom a little into the song, it's like a storm is coming. Be aware your voice has that effect when you subtly shade that body and intensity.   I'll be listening to it more. Remember Ronws and his copyright advice, your music isn't immediate in the radio way, but it has authentic emotional pull on a listener and it probably is worth stealing, sadly. It stirs the soul. Thank you so much for sharing with us, Chapman. You're a true artist and I'm so happy you're writing from the heart. You've taken your Drake inspiration and you're making it your own and this is possibly the best thing you could ever do. I'd like to thank you for taking this to the next level. It really inspires me and I am sure it could really inspire others.   Edit:   I showed this to the same person who introduced me to Drake and I've been showing her your tunes. She says this is your best yet and she found it more 'immediate.' I'll keep her ears around for ya as you write for another opinion. A really good thing you have going for you, is  you're very prolific with a good writing ethic. It's shining through already. I envy it. I really do, if you keep writing, you can go somewhere.

You two are already offering more to this community as a unique duo than many of us can add. We won't have those life experiences, musical experiences, and vocal experiences unless we've been down that path. Even a band the dynamic is different, their are often a bunch of people preoccupied with their instruments, and there isn't such a direct way of constantly and intimately building off another person's voice.   Glad you two seem like nice polite people, cause many duos end up like bad marriages, hahahah. I'll help you in any way I can, but I've said many times, I'm just a guy that sings. So if you have a really difficult goal there are pros. They gotta eat and have food on their plates and all that. I'm free. It all works out in the end.    In my book you're already a part of our community and given more than you've taken. No debts. Staying and hanging out is extra credit but desirable.

I was under the impression Ronws was a lighter voice type with a quirky timbre. Texans, especially the older generation, often have twang, so I thought he combined that into a lighter phonation into a head voice.   If Bono is right though, and he's been holding out on us. This is earth shattering news for Modern Vocalist. I'm staying tuned, folks.   Could be time for another low pitch note thread. I confess to having gained a couple through years or training. Maybe Ronws has another octave down there?

  I'd love if you both come back and post more. We don't have any duos here at all to my knowledge and harmony singing is one of my favorite styles. Really overlooked. As you two learn more and more about duet style singing, you might be able to help us.   We might be able to help with technique a bit, but this folksier style isn't always about blasting out high octane squealing stuff. Listeners would probably be most familiar with a Simon and Garfunkel tune or you could take a shot at an Everly Brothers.   As your training progresses, if you want to spread your wings a bit from folk, be sure to check look into Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrel duets. If I had a lady who could harmonize to my voice, I might just sing this one every day:     But you two are beginners, so that could be quite the stretch. Work on your voices, but it's great to have a polished good sound too. Very nice place to start off from.

I found the jazzy section really fascinating how your melodies worked with clarity over such a busy track. Rob already offered better constructive critique, so I've got little to add and he'd be a great one to help you further if you're seeking a teacher.   I did enjoy your sound though and found it fascinating. I've heard a lo tof prog in my day, brother has been a huge fan and I like some of it too. It's almost beyond what is typically considered prog metal into 'something' else. Not sure I've heard this genre combination before. It's intriguing, and I'm not normally a huge fan of busy music, it's abnormally cohesive. You should keep developing the styles and the vocals.

Wow, I hear some serious Ozzy as well and I enjoyed this one a little more actually. The weird thing is I always associate Ozzy with sounding more 'pressed' or stiff compared to some of the other more polished singers in the genre, but to me you sound a bit more 'loose' or relaxed on this tune than the other tune.   I guess maybe the most important question is which one was more comfortable and less exhausting of the two Priest covers? Only you can really answer, but the answer might be most useful in deciding your direction.

I remember Snax, yeah. He'd do a lot of these style tunes. The number one problem I got Olem, is I can't sing this style properly. I can listen, I can get a kick out of hearing it, but I drop my weight long before this point.   That said it does sound like you could maybe go a bit more heady compared to the original singer, as the sound is a bit more pressed sounding to my ears compared to Halford.   I can't compare sensations properly in my body. So it's kind of a foreign zone. You're doing well and way better than I could do, but I guess to an untrained audience, which might be useful, it sounds like it might be able to be more relaxed and resonant if it shed a little more when I compare the sound to Halford, or Geoff, or Bruce, or other singers that can sing up there. It might be just your voice in that region too.

I'm not familiar with original either. But I like the timbre of both of your voices and you blend nicely together. I feel like the performance was good.  You guys being newer to this stuff, the one impression I had, was less to do with the singing and more to do with the performance.   I get the feeling you ttwo don't know how good you are yet, and are a bit polite in your performance. Now this is cool, there are styles where politeness is good and ego can be a horrific thing. But I feel like you're both good enough you've earned yourself the right to a little swagger in there.   When you fully believe in yourself, sometimes it can change both the way it's presented and the sound a bit. I'm just giving you permission as an audience member that it's ok to strut. It's ok to take some self satisfaction when things are good. When that hramony is nailed, when you're identifying with a passionate vocal or feeling the swing of the guitar.   You both have the presentation of nice people and I'm not advocating becoming smug, arrogant pricks, even if it sells more records. (well you could try it as a stage act), but your voices and musicality are good enough you can look me in the eye, with complete self confidence completely immersed in this moment, feeling it, and I would believe it. You've got a pretty lady and a musical guy (he may be pretty too, but I'll leave that for the ladies to call!) who harmonize with nice voices.   There are different ways people can present sound, right? "This is a badass sound, I know it. I'm gonna give it to you" or "I hope this sound isn't too offensive." It's not just me, but people in general I think would believe the former from you.   All that said, I did enjoy it, but I'm giving those thoughts in the hopes that maybe a good folk ish duet can rise again, build an audience, build awareness. Write songs. Give it everything you've got, but above all, believe in yourselves, it can make it easier for others to believe in you too.

This is pretty good. I feel like foundations are really solid already for this style. Overall pitching was good. Some of the runs sounded impromptu and not rehearsed, like mine can get. So if you're aiming for like spot on perfection you might want to slow down every run and dial each note to perfection, but I like hearing a natural or looser performances too. I've heard younger Stevie Wonder do worse, heh, even some of the most skilled vocalists aren't always 100 percent precise, so don't be too concerned.   I thought both keys worked. There is more drama in your voice in the higher key, while more of a casual free flowing groove with the lower key. S   Something really interesting, was I wasn't watching you when you said 'me' and I heard a really strange sound color that sounded quirky. It was kind of cool, but at the same time I was going to dissect it and point it out if it was unintentional  you coud have some awareness.   I was in the processing of dissecting the sound, I glanced at your video and you are mouthing 'me' more like 'moo.' Your lips are pretty closed. If you want to make the me sound a bit more conventional, you can widen your lips a bit, like a slight smile. As is your vocal tract as best as I can tell sounded fairly comfortable (as best as I can tell, you'd know better than me) and flowing freely enough to work well, but your lips had a mind of their own there. mooweee.   I don't know if I'd throw that away completely, lots of vocalists have their little tics and quirks. Chamone! If you don't have things that are unique about you, people will have trouble remembering and identifying with you.Maybe experiment with all the places in between. Character is sometimes more safely found with lips than throat. You could probably add some cool flavors, and I've found it a bit inspirational to be honest, thinking about how sound colors could be altered this way.    I love the song, it's a classic, and enjoyed your rendition. Keep singing, keep training. Unless you believe this is your zenith, I feel like you may have more room to grow as a vocal artist, but at the same time you sound 'poised' to grow too. If that stuff feels pretty comforrtable in your body. I personally wouldn't want to modify a free flowing instrument too much. It's your call where you want to go, right?

Honestly, you'd probably sound good in a cardboard box. I actually climbed in a cardboard box to test this often tossed around theory, sounds pretty funny. But yeah, I bet you would/ Some voices just sound pleasant in almost any context, even acapella.   I bet you are a great live performer and nice to see, but I think you might be so used to being a life performer and so into that scene, maybe you're too harsh on yourself recorded.   Jazzy style music dates way back, most of us who enjoy this style of singing don't care at all what kind of microphone Billie Holiday had, don't care much for the technology at all. It's like the last thing on our minds when we listen to you. We like the voice behind the mic and I think it's great you get recorded from time to time to immortalize your voice. You should do this from time to time, just to leave a legacy. You're (probably) only going to be on this planet once, and if we have a record of you that's a special thing.   Besides, I won't be in Toronto any time soon, maybe ever and I doubt many members here would be either. I don't know if jazz will get you traveling reach the various corners of the world we're all scattered to given current popular trends (might want to put on your best Miley Cyrus impression for that one ), but you're really good and I hope there is a enough of a niche for you to find a good footing.   I'm not going to be able to be a live performer, given a few health problems, so dig deep with your improvization, sing from your soul, and make sure you give it your all. It's inspiring to know you're out there.

  That's cool feedback. It's very helpful for people to hear numerous perspectives. Thanks for giving a direct counterpoint, so Chapman can hear both sides.   To be honest, once Ronws hit the point of a movie soundtrack, I think it's pretty much perfect as is. I was thinking more of on the level of an ear catcher that people could dissect more quickly.