KillerKu

I think the formant battle is the key. You and Ronws utilise different vowel mod stratagies. Vowels are defined by formants. Singing harmony is a skill unto itself. Pretty much like another post you made about pitch and Barbershop quartets using math based harmonies. When two voices come together in harmony you can usually hear the third harmony from the mixing of the two.

So I started this cover awhile back. Got the guitar track laid down, started singing and was taking it into a kind of wistful direction.
 
I had kind of an idea of where I wanted it to go but it felt like something was missing. Maybe my voice just doesn't sound as rad on D5s as Robert Plant, but I knew I wanted something different.
 
So I hit up Ronws and asked if he wanted to sing some lead on this thing. From that point I really started liking this track and ultimately we ended up trading off leads. I added backing vocals, bass, drums, dual harmonizing guitar solos, and a new bridge. Went to town on this one.
 
What do you guys think?
 

Hadn't heard you much since way back. I've listened to the first 2 songs so far, but I can already tell you've climbed the mountain. Your accent is less thick too.
 
Imo, you've made it, dude. You're good enough at this style go to pro and are above my ability to critique. I'll listen to the rest, but I have a feeling I'll have the same opinion.

Hi there,
 
It's been a while since I posted my cover songs here. Well, I've got something interesting for you to listen, maybe enjoy and critique.
Don't hesitate to tell me about my singing and my pronunciation. Is my accent still thick? Any tips to improve it?
Thank you in advance
 
PS: I'm gonna post all my new cover songs in this thread.
 Judas Priest - A touch of evil: '>
 
 
Manowar - Heart of steel: '>
 
 
Whitesnake - Still of the night: '>
 
 
Iron Maiden - Aces high: '>
 
 
Helloween - If I knew: '>
 
 
Stratovarius - 4000 rainy nights: '>
 
 
Whitesnake - Crying in the rain: '>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

First of all, try to reduce the volume of the sound when you sing higher as though you are compressing the sound, At the same time, drop your jaw as though you are pronouncing the NG sound and a little yawning at the same time.

Hey guys, this time I try a different style
 
Please let me know what do you think
 
Thanks in advance!
 
btw, anyone knows how to change a nickname on the forum? 
 
 
https://app.box.com/s/siqwdj2cbvoakhfplawmpytg1j2n7rt5

So I started this cover awhile back. Got the guitar track laid down, started singing and was taking it into a kind of wistful direction.
 
I had kind of an idea of where I wanted it to go but it felt like something was missing. Maybe my voice just doesn't sound as rad on D5s as Robert Plant, but I knew I wanted something different.
 
So I hit up Ronws and asked if he wanted to sing some lead on this thing. From that point I really started liking this track and ultimately we ended up trading off leads. I added backing vocals, bass, drums, dual harmonizing guitar solos, and a new bridge. Went to town on this one.
 
What do you guys think?
 

It rocks. I'll give a more in depth listen when I get a bit more time, but was this the plan all along? To be our very own Bono, build up to your U2 cover and change it?
 
You're so Bono already. You sound good on U2 songs. (And no I don't know how to change it, lol, probably would have to ask admin).

That is what was getting me confused. I would hear Ron sing a word or two and then hear you finish or vice versa.
It is my own opinion but it seems that something in the vocal harmonies is causing a distraction. They are low enough in the mix that you really cannot hear them but I sense some kind of dissonance.
    Overall I like what you did with this.

Perfection is in the ears of there listener. Remember to keep that in mind. It's already helping you to remember the cultural thoughts about perceived nasality (E.G. Chinese Opera).
 
Anyway, I was objective and said a few notes sounded a bit sharp, and then pretty much immediately listened to this:
 

 
And I describe 'that' as perfect to my ears. It is so passionate. Perfectly describes an emotion I've lived through when a doctor decided to cut me off cold turkey from a medication and is one of my favorite songs in recent memory.
 
So I'll try to be objective with you guys cause it can possibly help you achieve a goal, but how close the pitch is to the center point is arbitrary in that it doesn't always represent how artistic, emotional, or valuable a piece of music is. Sometimes it's the imperfections that communicate the emotion. Emotion isn't perfect and human vulnerability is inevitably fragile.
 
 
PS...
 
All western music is out of tune (and auto tune actually moves away from perfect tuning to equal temperament).
 

 
So modern singers when accompanying music are constantly training to sing out of tune. Barbershop quartets tend towards mathematical harmony.
 
In this link, you can see the mathematical ratios are simply off:
 
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
 
Particularly on the 3rds and 6ths. You can hear the difference if you pay extra attention.

Robert is right that there is no quick advice to hit the high notes. I can hear a very nice timbre in there and I like the phrasing and passionate delivery and I already do like a lot of things about your voice.
 
If you want a tip into hitting high notes, I think for me it is probably bridging in general. You would improve much, much, much quicker with a vocal coach and professional program, but I would not neglect your falsetto/head voice and find ways of making this connect so you can take some weight off.
 
This thread has useful information where we tried to help another poster in finding his bridge:
 
'&do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>
 
However, even though I think his native language is English, he was having serious difficulty applying this. Even if we tried to help you with text, it could only go so far and would take an immense amount of time on our parts and yours.
 
The voice is very, very complicated, it helps a great deal to have face to face contact, and/or a really organized program. I have a very close friend who I have been helping learn sing, as while I'm not a top tier expert, I can hold my own with singing, but even with her, she's my friend so I spend a lot of face to face time, there are no miracles. It takes a huge amount of work.
 
So when Robert says not to expect miracles, you should believe him, it's not just a sales pitch. That said, you can improve on your own, but it's going to be an uphill battle and you'd likely never reach the level of a trained pro.

I think this forum has some of the toughest critics.  I mean this in positive way.  SexyBeast I am sure has the right things in his mind when he is critical about his impression of my singing and his feedback in the past has been really helpful for me to sort out some of my problems.  
 
Having said that I think the perception of nasality varies across cultures.  Where I live for example, this would not be considered nasal at all.  There are very popular singers who are much more nasal than me.  The issue is that here the focus on singing is as much on the right pronunciation as it is on whether the note is exactly at center.  Vowel modification of any sort is really frowned upon in our music.  I would for e.g. get blasted for being too anglicized if I were to sing traditional Indian songs.  We all at this forum know that singing across a big range without vowel modification is physiologically impossible and western music is more accommodating of accents and modified sounds than for e.g. traditional Indian music would be.  
 
Because the focus is a lot on proper pronunciation, we tend to be more forgiving of nasality, especially when it comes to sounds that are more nasal like "m" and "ng".. I guess the key for singers is to focus on what the audience wants.  And audiences tend to want different things... 

It is so weird that you say this, because the visualization that I had singing this song(it actually came from the video) was like this.  I found the part with the old man saying goodbye to his wife(presumably of many years) the most touching.  To me it felt that he had to remove her from life support and if she gave the slightest indication of any life in her, he would do anything in his ability to keep her alive and yes, it included fighting really hard even if things get dirty
 
I am a big fan of singers who can emote.  I will always prefer a singer with flaws if he can emote over a technically pitch perfect singer who cannot convey sadness/joy in his singing.  
 
Killer I was most impressed in a recent post of yours when said something on the lines of Piano having 5 octaves and for range, you can have instruments, but only a human voice can express emotion in a note(unlike an instrument where you need a series of notes to actually feel emotion).. I couldn't agree more with you on the value of emotions in singing

You nailed it on the emotions. Bono's version has a subdued melancholy and he sounds like he is closer to giving up on the subject.
 
Yours has a raw, pleading feeling in your gut as if you're not quite ready to give it up and are willing to fight for it, even if it things get dirty.
 
For me that's a big part of what singing is about. My favorite singer (David Ruffin) had a quote where he said, "I don't know what kind of voice I have. I guess it's just the feeling I get for a song.' It's how he emotionally interprets the song.
 
Ray Charles, another huge inspiration, was asked if he ever got tired of singing Georgia on My Mind, as it was so famous, incredibly good, but on his set list, and he replied, "No. Because every time I sing it, I'm feel different." So he always had more emotions to express in his singing and the interpretations always came out that way.
 
I'm really big into emo singing as a singer and as a listener (not the genre). I believe soul singing isn't a genre or sounding like X or Y soul singers, but is what you did here. It's when you lay your heart bare and put your vulnerability on the line.
 
Honestly, it can make technique harder. Emotions have their way of coloring the sound, they alter the resonate spaces, vowels, and even affect the laryngeal muscles directly, and so forth. The main technique I've been working on lately I think of as 'emotional bridging.' The concept is kind of like bridging chest and head voice, but the other bridge occurs between the emotional state of the singer, and trying to get it to the intended pitch!
 
It's much harder than singing like a robot. But for me, those are my real soul singers. Someone can have a spot on Ray Charles impersonation, but to me that person isn't a soulful singer by being able to do that. He might be able to imitate a voice that fits into the soul 'genre,' but genres are just arbitrary boxes to put music into. Genres aren't soulful.
 
For me, real soul singing is  when you allow yourself to be vulnerable, putting your heart on the line, expressing yourself as an individual, and try to express your emotional interpretation of a song as best as you can, as you. It's is a risk. It's a lot safer to try to calculate what the audience might want. It's a lot scarier than being Ray 2.0 and it requires 'letting go' and allowing 'you' flaws and all to color the sound. Most of my heroes had to find their voices, find who they are, and express that. That's why they are my heroes. Someone can imitate these guys and it's an impressive technical feat, but they already existed. Already did their thing, but it's more impressive to me when people find their own ways of communicating with their singing and connect with me.

You sound so passionate. I'm really feeling this. Yours and Bono's covers are revealing this to be a spectacular song. The melody is great.
 
Alright, let me go through the track here. You've got a gorgeous wistful timbre, coming in at 0:46, 'anywhere I would have followed.' It's really beautiful for this song. You should explore that side of your voice.
 
Timbre on the upper areas is brimming with emotion. Particularly the 'And I am feeling so small...and the section Chorus at 1:46 is dialed in beautifully. I love it.
 
Taking off my emotional hat and putting on my singing help hat. A Few technical things. The first couple notes might be a little sharp to my ears and are more nasal than the rest. Not enough to bother me, but if you want to do a comp, you might tweak on them. There was a little lisp somewhere, 'sthaying goodbye' but it was one time.
 
Now, I like singers rough, emotional, and raw, but if you wanted to polish it you might try tweakig the last chorus a little bit closer to the first two choruses. The first two had a crying very emotional sound, but also had a smoothness to the delivery that may attract listeners. The last had a bit of harshness, where things were going a bit more nasal.   
 
Overall, I really liked it and I think singing a really passionate emotional song is a good direction for you. It's bringing out other character and even vocal techniques in your voice (sob/cry) that not only sound good and authentic for you as an artist to express yourself and communicate with listeners, but tend to balance out some of the nasality.
 
Get a version on Soundcloud, and I'll star that one too. I may sing this song myself at some point. Hearing how emotional you guys are with it, I prefer your versions over the original.

I do not want to contradict you buddy, but you do sound like a singer, a good one actually...   Would like to hear your voice with no effect because it sounds a little robotic at the end of the phrases   finally, I hear a lot of Axel in your voice, that could be good or not... I think to copy is great at the beginning or as an excercise. I suggest you to keep this influence and go further, find out what makes you unique

Hi folks.. Did a cover of this song.. Heard the version done by Bono before I heard the original and have since been hooked on to the song.. 
 
Lot of emotion in the song and the lyrics and I love to sing these kind of songs.. 
 
https://app.box.com/s/3q33lx11j48cz41iwjy8gyswmcqkymg5

MDEW, I had the same issue in the exact specific range for a long time.  I have recently found ways to correct it(although not fully) and the key for me as is pointed out is embracing the voice I was born with and working towards building a proper connection while bridging. It has taken me a while, a certain degree of maturity and my voice had to develop a certain degree of strength before I could solve this problem.  
 
Let me try to explain this slightly differently.  In the passagio, our voice has to find an optimal mix of chest and head resonance to sound best.  I have a much deeper voice than say Steve Perry and if I try to sound like Steve in the passagio, it is going to cause problem.  He can adopt a much lighter tone and still have a proper connection from his chest while bridging and connecting.  For me, I cannot get the lighter tone without veering towards more heady mix, which results in a weaker and unstable voice.  I can sing all the notes now in E4-A4 region with more stability now, but it is only possible with the self-realization that I have a voice that will sound a specific way.  Once I forgot about the original singer, I could focus on finding the right mix for "MY" voice and I am able to see better results.... Ironically, I find it really tough now to do songs that I know very well, since I have built muscle memory with bad habits built in them.. 
 
My suggestion would be to try songs sung by female. Since we cannot, as males mimic the female tone, it helps us find out voice more effectively.  It is an idea that has helped me in the past for sure.. 

I think I'm going to try this structure(I agree with many areas of your perception) and we'll see how it goes . 
 
I'm traveling home to see my friends. (nostalgia and longing)
I don't think I'll return again. (feeling torn)
The wind and I have never been friends. (loneliness, mixed with frustration)
Its slithering sheets only pretends, (betrayal) 
I won't chase its tricks again. (regret)
To be something, it never plans. (independence)
So down to the frozen river I go. (resolute)
In search of secret treasures I go. (adventurous)
I'm peeling through this earthly womb.  (Investigative, freedome)
I'm shedding away this earthly skin. (renewed energy)
As the dust, carried in the wind. (Grieving loudly)
As the dust, carried in the wind. (Stifling grief more quietly)
As the dust, carried in the wind. (Almost speaking)
As the dust, carried in the wind. (fading (almost a whisper)
Beneath all swears, prayers, and stares, (small, wonder)
In the morning light. In the morning light. (hope)
Drenching the sin, letting sunshine in. (enlightenment)
A wandering soul pleas for more. (pleading)
A wandering soul pleas for more. (pleading more urgently)

Thanks ,I appreciate the insight. I agree, I need to create more of an emotional connection with this song. Haha my voice probably lacks spirit in many areas of this recording because I recorded at around 3am in the morning(sometimes the inspiration arrives at an inconvenience:P). I definitely need to add more oomph with the lines" As the dust carried in the wind". I have a basic zoom h4n recorder; my recording goes as follows:
 
For this recording I was too tired to sing and play at the same time so I multi-layered.  
 
Guitar First: 
 
-Get some cardboard and create a box for the mic to sit in, leave a small hole for the tripod and a side open. 
-Recorder placed just below the body of the guitar, about 2ft,(to pick up the lower bass ends) and positioned off to left of the guitar, so that the recorder's mics are facing diagonally towards the fretboard( from the arm strumming the guitar,  take the position of the elbow and move back some, that is usually where I'll stand the mic. This prevents the recorder from becoming too muddy and it will be able to pick up more room ambiance too- clarity
-In Adobe Audition I apply an equalizer- to raise the lower ends a titch and adjust overtones- I also add a very subtle amount of reverb(less harsh that way)  
 
Voice: 
 
-Since I recorded most of the guitar from the left side, I record the voice from the right side to compensate a little. 
-Place a thin cloth or a windshield over your mic. 
-Set preamp to about 68 
-Position recorder in front of you mouth about 1ft away. 
- In adobe Audition I apply a very subtle amount of reverb and I crank up the highs and raise the lows slightly, because the zoomh4n has a very even range I like to raise the areas where my voice lies so that any background noise will be unnoticed. When you raise the high ends you can get this very vintage/warm sound and softness added.
 
Rendering:
 
-I render to wave or monkey audio; I find that mp3 audio can lose a lot of detail from being overly compressed.  

I agree with most of your post and relate. But be careful with this line of thinking. There's almost nothing you've done with your voice that doesn't have a good context at least somewhere. You sing good. Rather than remove the old habits completely, you can expand your artistic palette so to speak.
 
Say some habits sound great on your low notes, quieter passages, but just don't work on the high notes. Do something different for the high notes.  There isn't endless flexibility, and yes habits exist and define people to some extent. You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some of those habits are part of what make you, who you are.
 
We are all physiologically different, but if we all used optimum techniques all the time, singing could be robotic and boring. You've already got character, so if you just adopted Stevie Wonder's technique as closely as possible, most of the time, you might lose some. 

Breathy Voices:
 
Perfect timing, Matakka. I had some time when warming up today. So I figured I might be able to help both of you. So I'll start with the breathy voice. The breathy voice is when the vocal folds in the larynx are more apart. You probably know how to whisper, which is an extreme version of breathy voice with no voice.
 
In English, the "H" consonant is basically the breath control consonant so adding more of the feeling of that consonant. Yawning and sighing at the same time can help achieve a really relaxed natural position for things to be breathy.
 
However you should pay attention, because breathier voices on average are more fatiguing on the vocal folds, because there is so much air blowing past them. It's fine to use, but you'd want to rest it. And the other thing, the breathier you get, the lighter your tone should be (closer to falsetto). The thickness of the a voice is partially controlled by how closed the vocal folds are, so if they are closed and you're trying to be breathy, it can put excess pressure.
 
I made this sound file that might help here:
 
https://app.box.com/s/j8s6vh4kkwenvu55u4vby3cho6pbrsi6
 
I explain a few things, but since English isn't your first language, you might have to just listen for the sounds. I sang snippets of Happy, Unchained Melody with ligher voices. But I showed a fuller voice singing Valerie, but those fuller sounds are more advanced and you want to be careful how much you add.
 
Non Breathy Voices
 
 
So on the flip side and for Krispian this might be helpful for you. If you sing or speak breathy and you don't know how to reduce this, I made something that might help you.  What is going on is your vocal folds are more apart. One of the best exercises I've found for reducing breathiness in a fairly intuitive way, is to say a vowel very quickly. Like 'uh oh.' And then gradually extend the vowel out until it is longer.
 
Now the only thing about this exercise, is it might create too much closure, more tha you want. So it can help to add the feeling of an invisible 'H.' Like a tiny cushion.
 
And for Krispian, I don't know if your native language is English, but I tried to explain it a bit. If you don't understand, the sounds are still demonstrated. At the end I showed what it would be like to sing Stevie Wonder breathy, how I would have to lighten the timbre, vs if I sing it not breathy, I could add more closure.
 
https://app.box.com/s/dt6rg9ryrcw4i64b94wf2lbj72jysohy
 
I hope these can help, it's really useful to be able to control the amount. In general, kind of a medium thing is fine. Fuller thicker notes, require less breathy.

Killer, I believe that the analysis and returns on the emotional aspect is just as important as technical analysis, because ultimately you sing to convey something to your audience not only to impress; at least that's my view. In that sense I am very pleased that, beyond my technical difficulties, you guys consider nice my singing   Sexy (I always feel weird calling you as well: D), yes, I've tried to study songs the way you suggest. The thing is that I don´t have many references of singers at this time. It happens that before starting to study vocal technique with a modern method I thought I was a baritone, not a tenor. As often happens, I was frustrated because not reaching high notes and being unable to sing the songs of my idols (all tenors). That led me to not sing for a long time. Until one day I began to accept me as I thought I was and started listening to singers within the vocal range I assumed to have by that time such as Josh Groban, Michael Buble. Then I started to develop a way of singing with which I am very happy for songs not very sharp. Then, a year and a half or so, I discovered, thanks to the internet, there are modern methods of singing, discovered SLS and started singing lessons via Skype. My vocal coach told me not to listen to josh groban or michael buble cause they were not good references for me; He told I could sing songs of them but he suggested that I listened to Stevie Wonder, Freddy Mercuri and other tenors. I found it very crazy because I feel that my voice is much heavier than theirs; however with vocalizations I began to reach incredibly high notes (maybe I can record them and upload for you to listen); But, as nothing is free in this life, now I can reach those notes but I can not put much of them into my singing so far, can´t find the same balance as when I vocalize. Plus, it seems that I have to get rid of some bad habits that, paradoxically, sound good but they are incoherent with the way I want to develop my voice.      Sorry , guys , hope not dizzy or bore you with this long story

Wow, that is hard. As a rule I don't touch Lou Gramm all that much. Not only is he Bob's hero, but the guy is always singing so high.  Honestly I think you did better than I would if I were to one take that on on pitch. I agree if you're gonna go live you've gotta train, but you've got to have some patience for yourself.
 
Here's the thing, when I hear it, I do hear a light connection. Now, maybe it's not the sound you're wanting as a complete sound yet, but in a way this is a good thing.
 
I wasn't even sure if I could sing that chorus without falsetto. I can, but there's a complication, let me show you:
 
Raw: https://app.box.com/s/lb5syr7hezyxe0puqtyzn9yjdcvra19r
 
With Reverb Etc: https://app.box.com/s/gy8r1876dbe2n9hfd72go01mymca3oc8
 
0:00. mostly falsetto (a bit Smokey Robinson ish)
0:09  more connected from Smokey
0:15 starting to lean the other way
0:19 More connection
0:25. Very connected (felt a bit like belting, which sounds fine, but maybe too much connection and pressing the cords)
 
From 0:00 to :025 I was increasing the the 'curbing' feeling. Really leaning into the vowel on that is in 'book.'
 
0:38 Backed off that sensation and starting quacking more with twang
0:50  More quacking
0:57 Extremely quacky (sounds a bit ridiculous)
 
1:07.  Backed off both a bit and attempted using more air (sounds good, but may be too much air)
 
So basically, I don't know which one is right for me, but I do know the Smokey Robinson one has the least pressed phonation and throwing air at it is not a good idea either.
 
So my advice is to maybe take it a bit slow and try to lean into a position that is stable, not fatiguing and so forth. I'm still not confident in my notes there. It's not the sound, it's that it is more fatiguing on the vocal folds themselves when sending my voice that high. None of them were particularly unpleasant and I'm not sore or hoarse, but I have a feeling it's best to dial such a thing in for long term use.
 
And you're saying you want to go live and go pro with singing. That makes it all the more, right? I'm fine if I do that like 8 times there. Could have done it a lot more, but if I did that chorus for hours, I might not be fine, since I don't do that..
 
So going back to the beginning, if you're in this for the long haul, take your time. Don't rush it. Cause right now you're in a pretty good place, and just a bit more closure may be good, but too much may be bad.

Hi Folks, 
 
This is a second take of this song.  I have been down with throat infection and cough again in the last 10 days and my voice is not in the best shape.  
 
I have been meaning to do this for a while, since my skills have improved.. This is, like some of my recent recordings, a single take.  To me it sounds a little unpolished... 
 
This is a very difficult song for me.  I am unsure how much air I need to use and I feel dangerously close to flipping from head voice into falsetto!  
 
I seem to have problem with the pitch(just a little shaky).. What do I need to do to improve pitch accuracy(obviously talking about live singing here where we don't have luxury of multiple takes).. 
 
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JOC0jOmpnN