Gneetapp

Hi Gneetapp!

Thank you! Those words help me a lot, man. I didn't know Robert could help us so much here... as it is not as good as a personal lesson, it really makes the difference compared with other programs i tried. I mean, the coach is there when he can! And after I read his comment, I review the material (book and video lectures) and I could understeand even more why I have to practice that. And how to do it.

I am going to get better. That's for sure. I have the motivation, the time and the right program. I am just starting this journey, and it seems as an awesome one.

Hey Aravindmadis, very nice try man. You got the balls to pick a very hard song, my friend. I liked one thing in special, that is you did not sound as a cartoon character not for a second. Great improvements, man!
It sounds to me that you are straining and shouting a lot on the high parts, with the exception of the falsetto/light head voice on "keep on fighting..." (very nice, by the way). I agree with the other guys about changing your approach to this song. In my humble opinion, you could either try it on a lowered key (1-1/2 step down) to get the coordination, muscles, and stamina right, or "keep on fighting till the end..." (sorry I couldn't resist) continue singing on the same key but making several changes as needed. I don't think the notes are your problem, as you probably have recorded songs with higher notes. You are probably struggling because of a combination of lyrics (vowels and consonants that throw you off), the notes you are coming from right before the change in pitch, and to much power. If you want to keep trying on the same pitch you must start training with a much lighter coordination of "mixed" or head voice, and pay attention to your support as you ascend. Keep practicing just the change in pitch with less power and support. When you get the coordination right the timbre will change with time, and you may sound as powerful as you like. Keep on rocking man!

Hey Rodrigo, I love tho song too man! That is a great before/after recoding for all the reasons Robert already mentioned. You did the best thing you could ever do to learn/improve your singing technique man, which is getting a training system such as Pillars, not only because of all the content, but because you have Robert right here at the forum, man! If you are serious about learning/improving your singing, work hard and I promise you will not regret it. Keep rocking man!

Actually, I practiced for a week but it was not enough. But thanks, guys, for your help. Others might think this is a simple song. And maybe it is. So, back to the drawing board ...

Dont get hung up on baritones tenors and basses. Fach doesent mean anything in pop music or should i say contemporary. we have a thread about bari's basses singing high here on forum with 200+ posts. take a read.
 
Now i think you are speak-singing. you need to really get into singing mode. its hard for me to explain as im a begginer also. But try giving it more strenght like ron said and dont be afraid of "sucking". i thnk you are trying to much to not sound bad or embarassing, and then you end up almost reciting the lyrics.
 
I can hear that you have an ear for pitch. it wasnt perfect but you hear the melody and you are trying to follow it, and you DO, but its more of a "lyrical recitation" (if thats a thing) than singing.
 
Try to loose up and really let it go and record again.

Off pitch in the beginning, like you couldn't hear the key of the music. I would say, turn the music up a little bit and sing louder, instead of whispering in places. Also, think of the lyrics as melody, not prose to be recited. Sing differently than you speak. And don't worry so much about matching Axl's tone, though you got some natural features in your voice that sounds like him, You have about the same speaking pitch, though he has a midwestern accent.
 
I think you could totally do this song, I just want to hear you commit full tilt into it.

Rodrigo, I listened to this.
 
It needs work.
 
1). The biggest issue is you don't have strong compression on the glottis and that is preventing you from doing other things you need to do...
 
2). You need to amplify more in the upper had palette, this is way too throaty.. there is not energy amplifying the upper palette... Train your Edging Vowels!
 
3). It is very pitchy... that is partly because you have no amplified brighter harmonics.
 
You need work on onsets that engage vocal compression more and edging vowels.
 
T&R
Q&R
A&R
 
Into "eh" and "a" (cat).... 
 
Try the supplemental onsets for Edging:
 
"Yeah"
"Ya"
 
Im just giving it to you for real buddy... this is not going to work.  Get more command of your glottal compression, amplify more to the palette and get out of the throat... and I can tell by listening to this, your embouchure is not lifted and bright.  You have to expose your canines to get the palette amplified... there is no embouchure here.
 
I do compliment you on having the courage to post your song and share it with the community, that says a lot for you.
 
 
  I really appreciate your optimism and enthusiasm ... but the D&R onset is only "KEY", if you need it. There is no "magic" onset... they are used to target specific issues... and if you were taking lessons with me, after hearing this recording, D&R onsets would not be my first choice for you.... Ironically, this DOES sound too flat, in part because your darker overtones are way too heavy.
 
Start training more compression and Edging vowels to the palette, get it done.
 
Coach

If I see someone that posts a topic that is my student, you better believe it, I will do everything I can go get in here and help you. I'm not going to ignore you...
 
I really need to set up a "TVS" group... there are several of you that are using this forum for status reports on your "Pillars" training... thats great... I need to formalize it though.  I did create the "4Pillars" forum for that purpose... 

Thank you. Singing your fav songs a bit lower could help you avoid the bad habits of getting strained. At the same time you should find a method to increase your "chest" range. And this method is not just to sing these songs in the original key. I'm sure you will be able to sing them even higher than the original key. Cheers.

Hey, man! Very nice try.
This is not an easy song to sing. When you go higher you start climbing notes, e.g. when you sing Bb4 "through". When you sing the higher part of the chorus you tend to force.
My recommendation is that you try to sing the song a step or two lower to avoid these killer notes. As soon as you're ok with this lowered key, then go higher.

Toughest songs for me are the ones that suddenly mix belting through the passagio.  Like this song is relatively simple and all of a sudden, the A4 comes out of the blue.  I am not exaggerating.  I can actually sing some Maiden songs with a fair degree of comfort which have much higher notes.  But rock and metal singing has a higher margin for error(no kidding).  Learning how to bridge and sing high is a challenge.  But once you get through the tough part, the rest is tone.  Except really qualified listeners, slight variations in tone may not be obvious to the casual listener.  
 
Here it sticks out like a sore thumb when you make small mistakes.. 

I feel your frustrations friend. I totally agree with you! Even though I can sing Knocking on Heaven's Door (Guns version), Iris still gives me trouble on the chorus with that A4... Keep rocking man!

Actually, on listening again, I hate this version!! To me this is a deceptively tough song.  I struggle with quick jumps across notes.. The range is not an issue, but I think I need to work on the progression of the notes... 

Well you're doing a good job man. The way you can hit notes while doing almost an exhale scream is something few people can do well! Keep it up!

Yes, I know that feeling all too well haha.
I'm doing the exact same "mistake" when trying to sound like a high-pitched Halford, but I believe that if you practice it consistently your muscles will get used to it and be able to loosen it up a bit and still produce a nice sound.

But am I practicing consistently to put my theory to the test? No, I do not haha! Not even close, but you've got a nice thing going here so test it out

I do not want to contradict you buddy, but you do sound like a singer, a good one actually...   Would like to hear your voice with no effect because it sounds a little robotic at the end of the phrases   finally, I hear a lot of Axel in your voice, that could be good or not... I think to copy is great at the beginning or as an excercise. I suggest you to keep this influence and go further, find out what makes you unique

Perfection is in the ears of there listener. Remember to keep that in mind. It's already helping you to remember the cultural thoughts about perceived nasality (E.G. Chinese Opera).
 
Anyway, I was objective and said a few notes sounded a bit sharp, and then pretty much immediately listened to this:
 

 
And I describe 'that' as perfect to my ears. It is so passionate. Perfectly describes an emotion I've lived through when a doctor decided to cut me off cold turkey from a medication and is one of my favorite songs in recent memory.
 
So I'll try to be objective with you guys cause it can possibly help you achieve a goal, but how close the pitch is to the center point is arbitrary in that it doesn't always represent how artistic, emotional, or valuable a piece of music is. Sometimes it's the imperfections that communicate the emotion. Emotion isn't perfect and human vulnerability is inevitably fragile.
 
 
PS...
 
All western music is out of tune (and auto tune actually moves away from perfect tuning to equal temperament).
 

 
So modern singers when accompanying music are constantly training to sing out of tune. Barbershop quartets tend towards mathematical harmony.
 
In this link, you can see the mathematical ratios are simply off:
 
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
 
Particularly on the 3rds and 6ths. You can hear the difference if you pay extra attention.

@Gneetapp.. Thank you for your kind words.. It is a very slow progress for me and it has taken me nearly 2 years to get to where I am today, especially with a full time job that does not involve music!  Yes, there are some spots where the pitch is not exactly in the center. The amount of effort & skill required for perfection is out of my reach now.. 
 
Yes, I plan to redo my earlier songs.. 

Oh man! Oh man! Aravind, your improvements have no bounds! I'm so jealous (in a good way)! Your timbre was so nice with the low end, and very little nasality. Awesome singing! yeah, you had a few spots just a bit off-pitch, but who doesn't?! I think you should revisit some of your earlier recordings where you sounded too nasal, and redo them. Nice job! Keep rocking!

I think this forum has some of the toughest critics.  I mean this in positive way.  SexyBeast I am sure has the right things in his mind when he is critical about his impression of my singing and his feedback in the past has been really helpful for me to sort out some of my problems.  
 
Having said that I think the perception of nasality varies across cultures.  Where I live for example, this would not be considered nasal at all.  There are very popular singers who are much more nasal than me.  The issue is that here the focus on singing is as much on the right pronunciation as it is on whether the note is exactly at center.  Vowel modification of any sort is really frowned upon in our music.  I would for e.g. get blasted for being too anglicized if I were to sing traditional Indian songs.  We all at this forum know that singing across a big range without vowel modification is physiologically impossible and western music is more accommodating of accents and modified sounds than for e.g. traditional Indian music would be.  
 
Because the focus is a lot on proper pronunciation, we tend to be more forgiving of nasality, especially when it comes to sounds that are more nasal like "m" and "ng".. I guess the key for singers is to focus on what the audience wants.  And audiences tend to want different things... 

When you mix your recording, eq a drop at about 1400 Hz. 

Well done. This is a good match for your voice and I liked the mix, too. It seemed well balanced.
 
I hereby condemn you to having a melodic voice that really shines on ballads.

Loved it! you sound like a professional singer along almost the entire song. Then I 'll give you another turn and I will dwell on issues that you need to work ; but I would love to say I think you're on the right track !! congratulations

I wondered about this.  I'm generally curious about the interest in being able to sing above A4; there is a lot of music below A4.   Not much Zeppelin of course ....
 
More to the point, managing that E4 to A4 range seems like a pretty solid challenge to begin with.

Thanks Than, more to come... in my "How To Sing Like Robert Lunte, Singing Like Robert Lunte" Series... its a whole new concept... Actually "how to sing like you"... imagine not singing like someone else. Who would of thought of it...?