Transitioning to Harder Songs - DIO

[Elvis]

Hey guys. Ive been working lately on songs i couldnt tackle before. Essentially anything above A4 is a huge challenge to me. And even stuff up to A4. Not even mentioning tone and other stuff.

 

So ive started to learn Catch the Rainbow by Rainbow (Dio). It goes up to B4 and i guess thats just enough to gove me quite a challenge.

 

I recorded some clips of the chorus just so you guys can help me out a bit. Im not sure what im doing wrong but obviously i am doing quite a bit if it wrong.

Here goes 2 clips. 1 shorter and one longer but both preety short just so you hear what im doing to phonate that B4.

 

 Longer: https://app.box.com/s/f2c4obcky5nvye9111urhl3bmg6c844l

Shorter: https://app.box.com/s/syj5mirc27sbeu2ugvuf4tp2mm84xry2

 

Would appreciatte any help. Take note his is after a few take so even some other stuff is wrong but im primarly interested in that B4, but do comment on as much of it as you can.

 

Thanks guys!!!!

[Jens]

Here is what i am hearing, your voice is struggeling because there is to big diffrence between your open and closed sounds. More importantly the narrower vowels, and that entire line is just a pingpongmatch between open and closed vowels.

Buuuhht Laaahhiiiihhfs nAaat a Wheeeeel wiihth Chaaahhnge mAaaaiihhhd Ohhhf Steeeeeeeeel 

try this, a simple "trick" i personaly use When singers and songwriters tends to gimme the short stick and throw in to many consonants  

[Jens]

Weird it works for me, just try press play. I think youtube cut away an opening picture as i tilted my camera the wrong way

 

[Elvis]

wow.. thanks Jens...im gonna try to record a sample with using more openness and i hope you can give me some feedback if im doing that correctly!!!!

 

Thanks alot!

[KillerKu]

That sounds placed right to me but still a bit clumsy cause the coordination isn't fully dialed in to stability. I'm not the resident Dio guy. My version is kind of like a confused pirate that says something in between 'ahhr and ehhr.' But if you get the placement fairly right it shouldn't tap out, increase in compression when ascending too much, or hit a wall when bridging into headier placement. Mine sucks but doesn't tap out:

https://app.box.com/s/ztzkrd3pv4vedad3v665w8mp7jnceb9v

 I'm pretty sure what I'd need to do if I was going to really work on the Dio would be manage compression levels and do the Messa di voce thing (swell from lightest tone) into it the pirate cause right now mine is even clumsier than yours. I do practice swells every day now with regular voice in all parts from lowest to highest notes (thanks to Dan, who showed it to me and it really stuck), but I never really practice my DIo impression much.

But yeah, to me it sounds right, depending on what happens when you ascend.

[VideoHere]

Elvis, 

Others may not agree, and I say this well-meaningly, but (just my opinion) you simply are not ready to do a song like this, if your goal is to sing it, like he is singing it.

These are the kinds of songs that have to be worked up to.  The requisites you need for songs like this are not there yet.

Strong, consistent support.

Larygeal stability (due to good support).

Ability to manage higher levels of air pressure.

Certainly work on it, but take your time with it.  Don't rush it, because you could very easily pick up some bad habits.

 

 

 

 

 

[ronws]

I think Jens hit it on the head. You were changing shape too much and throwing off your resonance, which is causing the note to break and then you end up pushing.

I also agree with Bob that some songs may be just outside your technical ability but, then, I am on your side and having a song such as this is a worthy goal.

[VideoHere]

Certainly, pursue the song, but be realistic..This ones like carving a statue.  Chip away on it each day...and do other songs less demanding as well.

[Xamedhi]

My question is... can you sing higher than a B4?  If you can't then you probably, like Bob, said, are not ready to sing this song as Dio sings it.

I rephrase my question, do you have a coordination where you are in a stable, singable mix where you are comfortable to sing the song in, even if it sounds heady? And then work the song like that. You will be able to add strength to it as time passes, as you already seem to be training. And as time passes I mean whenever you feel comfortable, which can be a day, a week or a month.

I went straight ahead to the hard material after I found my mix ( which was very heady and light, and still somewhat is haha ) I went crazy trying all sorts of stuff, Rhapsody of Fire, Dream Theater, Conception, even if it didn't sound convicing. My voice was not nearly as strong as yours, so you don't need to skip the "hard material" at all    Just approach it a different way, maybe.

Can you siren up from chest to a C5 on full voice? ( doesn't matter if it sounds heady or whatever. If you are familiar with CVT terms I would ask "can you go from chestvoice to C5 in curbing" ?

 

[Elvis]

Thanks for replies guys.

The thing is i can siren up to E5 in "full voice" or lighter full voice. So i tried learning songs that at least goes up to B4 cuz up to A4 i can sing and dont have alot of trouble singing songs like that. And i wanted to try and actually SING songs that goes above A4 instead of sirening all day long.

In this clip there is alot more problem than i ussualy have. For example that "made of STEEL" that was soooo wobly in clip jens used as refference but ussualy it isnt that bad. 

Ill try doing a full cover using tips i got here and will give it some time to record it properly just to see how it will turn out in mix and maybe get a feeling how it all sounds with music

 

[KillerKu]

I was in a phase where I could siren a lot of things I couldn't sing which I think is normal. My advice: make sure you focus on real real singing onsets: every vowel in the language (and more). The siren might help you get an idea of where the placement goes, but each vowel will have it's own characteristics. Your end goal will have to be singing without any helper tricks, right?

One other thing I noticed in the clip, is you would do a very small falsetto, and then a pretty full voice. It would be 0 or 100. Regardless of whether this particular song is too difficult for you to nail exactly, I don't think it's too early to work on other percentages. For me, that more than probably anything has prevented me from either slamming or or cracking. It's kind of like a gas pedal.

You might be able to drive by slamming 100 and 0 rapidly, it would  harder on your vehicle and increase likelihood of an accident, basically a similar concept can occur in voice. If I was really serious about singing Dio style stuff which as of this moment, it's I would definitely train going from the smaller voice  as steadily to whatever 100 percent voice you're interested in, and back again.

Cause that's what Dio did, imo:

 

He wasn't a gas pedal cranker, imo. He dialed in just the right amount of closure and compression that was not fatiguing and was free enough to control for his voice. Now lots of us have thrown down the pedal and just cranked. I have, you have. More have than not. But if you want to be able to sing like Dio, you should probably learn how to control the throttle here equally well.

In that sense, maybe Bob is right. Maybe it's too soon for all of us.

[Elvis]

hehe Thnks Killer!

Tbh im not trying to sing like dio. im just trying to get out of the rut and start training harder songs for me. i just wanted to go from beggining to the end of this song with full voice... desent have to be powerfull ror BIG. just correct pitches and full tone..even if its lighter..

[Robert Lunte]

I got your video this time Jens... great video... thanks for helping out, really good.

Yes, Elvis... narrow the vocal tract and lower your acoustic mass. The splatting on the vocal tract (which includes the embouchure) is making the anchoring weak and the heavier acoustic mass you are putting into this is crashing your formant energy.

Stop trying to hit a high note loud, and start amplifying.

Also, I think you would benefit a lot by shifting your resonance forward to the hard palette a bit, it seems a but "uh"-ish and unnecessarily heavy.

Lastly, Im moving this to "Review My Singing" forum.

[ronws]

Sirens are good for training but they are not singing. Doing a siren is usually on one vowel when a song has articulation. Rather than worry about how tough a song is based on range, worry instead about how to create the apparent sounds of words while singing. And to disagree with Bob and others just a little, if you want to do this song, do it. To me, part of the secret pill to singing is that there are no easy or hard songs. They are all the same difficulty and challenge.

[Robert Lunte]

wow.. thanks Jens...im gonna try to record a sample with using more openness and i hope you can give me some feedback if im doing that correctly!!!!

 

Thanks alot!

In my view Jen's embouchure is narrowing, similar to a SNILE. 

[Xamedhi]

What I was asking about the siren is just to prove that you can sing higher. Your folds can do that, so all the rest you have to do to sing that high is find the correct vowels and be very conscious about your breath support, as it will help immensely when articulating words on your high range.

What I think mostly when I sing  on a higher range, is "babbling" the words.. As vowels tend to homogenize more the higher you go ( If you want to go chesty ). Try "babbling" on this area and it will probably help you get the feeling of openness and freedom you need ( while keeping the vowel , because it's like the body naturally searches for the most comfortable way of phonating. No overthinking )
 

That's the feeling I look for when singing stuff like this:

 

 

Everything that's on the A4-C5 range has that babbling feeling, and you can notice how my vowels are almost the same ( more towards an UH I think), just with a shade of EH or EE, to make the word understandable.  I don't know if what I'm saying is graphic enough, but I will try to record something to show you better what I'm trying to explain  

I hope it helps, man. Singing stuff we like so much is so fullfiling, even if it doesn't sound well to others haha  I support you \m/

[Elvis]

Thanks seba. Means alot bro. Gonna try utilising all these advice to record a full cover as best as i can