Xamedhi

Hey guys, I'm posting this as a sort of "hey all, long time no see, I'm doing well" hahah EDIT :Also, I don't ask for critique or review, I'm just showing what I've been doing for others who want to listen or study. I think someone posting about what they think the distortion is, or how it compares to theirs does not help my singing directly. I repeat myself "I posted this as a "hey all, this is what I've been doing" because the "tell your gains" thread is dead. If after this clarification my thread still belongs here, then I'm ok with that, but I just wanted to make it clear. I just wanted to debate singing and technique in general, or whatever someone wanted to ask ( about my vocal fold gap, reflux, etc ), cheers everyone! . I've been working hard on my voice as always, carrying weight up and my headvoice twangy range. My max weight is on B4 and headvoice range topping on E5 on good days, with a solid D#5. I have a vocal fold gap ( acording to my stroboscopy on 2015 ) and I don't know the current state of it. It's a lot better, sound, strength and stamina has gotten waaay better. I still feel my voice a lot different though, I don't know if its because of the vocalis muscle that's grown stronger or what, but I wouldn't give up the stability of my voice now or my sound, for the flexibility or -strained- range I had before ( 2014-2015 ) Well, I come to tell you guys... I at last found some kind of distortion that feels healthy in my voice, and is sustainable. I've tried the "throat singing" type of distortion ( false folds and cartilage, Hetfield style ) but it hurts and always leaves me with air leak and poor stamina for days or a week or two, even. I've tried creaking distortion but as I already mentioned, my voice is kind of f***ed up in some way, and I don't know if it's normal but I have a hard time coordinating fry, lol. and when I manage, it leaves my voice very worn out if done for 20 minutes. This kind of distortion I found is probably like the rattle described in CVT terms ( kind of what Jorn Lande does most of the time ), where something ( I think arytenoid cartilage ? ) vibrates, but in a different way, I feel like the upper and side walls of my pharynx contracting, which makes something vibrate and produce this "overlay". I t's still a thin grit and I have to put quite a bit of effort in it to make the walls contract enough to make the sound but I guess with time and patience the strength will come and I'll be able to put more "anger" into it coordinated with vocal weight. I must mention that doing this distortion makes my voice last longer, stamina is better, and closure is getting better too. I feel my muscles are working out and getting stronger, and I have an easier time mixing into my upper range. All this change in a span of 5 days, so it's important to note. I hope you guys like how it sounds, this is the fifth day since I found it, videos are from yesterday

Yeah, its more difficult for me too, as is the EH in the high range... I feel like EE and EH depend a lot more on falsetto musculature as you ascend in pitch, and in my voice, which doesn't have a very strong isolated falsetto, is harder to keep adduction and power, even more when my voice is tired. My voice likes UH and OH a lot more, haha

I don't really know what you mean by that, man. What issue are you having? A vocal gap? Weak adduction? If you sound girly by D5 then you probable are not engaging the TA musculature.

You are always talking about your voice not being strong enough... And I tell you right away, your voice is faaaar stronger than what I had when I started. In adduction, endurance, range.. And I still could do modal\full voice voice up to D5 because I had the coordinations. Now I have a vocal gap that affects my voice on top of my already weak muscular base, but I still sing full D#5 and E5, so no excuses, man. Its not strength, it's coordination, and you can get it in a month or two consistently. You definitely build strength, I can assure that because I've got a lot better in that aspect, but the coordinations are the most important, because without knowing it how can you even practice it? I recommend going lighter in mass on the C5 area... And as your falsetto is really strong, you will probably get to an E5 in full voice

Well, for training just modify the songs to your liking, "do what you need" is what I feel about singing. If someone wants to stay a couple minutes just repeating the word "boooriiiiing!!" in whatever pitch they need to work on then cool, lol I do that stuff myself haha

This is a better example of the EEs I think Robert is talking about. "To rEEmake" and in the chorus "EEs there rEElly ". In my voice i need to open my mouth more vertically ( and this is important), and think the positioning more like an EH and little by little modify towards EE

By strong i undrrstand he means a strong and confortable EH and then raise the back of the tongue so it starts sounding more like an EE... Its something like this, on the word "hills", but this is not as modified to the EE, for that song I like it more EH hahah

Man, my helloween and kamelot a capella videos have copyright claims... I felt so stepped on, and at the same time so flattered, lol Keep up the good work Olem! Listen to Robert on the EE, thats very good advice

Can you sustain the notes cleanly for some seconds? I ask because as i understand you are doing this as training. If you have some bad habits singing clean, it will be more difficult to drop them while singing with distortion. So check that out other that that, good job, ill justo work on going through the phrases slowly and sustaining every vowel for 3-4 seconds.

I love that song, hahah. Well, I don't want to get into terms, because they are all debatable, but I'd say that is an un-adducted phonation, with some airleak also, and the body of the folds is not engaging. The body of the folds, the meat of the folds, is highly responsable of giving the "normal voice"/chestvoice/speaking voice quality to the voice when singing. For that song, if you want what Lana is doing, you need to decrease the airflow, and "seal" the vocal folds until you can do a smaller and "sharper" sound, so you can control it and be able to give that ethereal and flirty quality she has. So what you have here, I, personally, would say is falsetto, describing my perception based on TFPS terms. I think, based on very little info hahaha, that your voice is pretty strong already, so you'd have to learn more the coordination part of singing. My voice is not very strong but I can still sing a lot of stuff, so yeah, just practice the hell out of whatever sound you want to make. For that, in general, the things you want to try to balance out are air flow ( the air that you "throw" through the vocal folds ), and how much you "close" your vocal folds. If you have too much or too little of any of those, singing can get difficult, or even dangerous in some cases. But you have to experiment to find what is more comfortable and less tiring.

I second what has already been said... it sounds like if you were a member of the band and it was your song. I also think it's the best cover I've heard from you. The "your time will come" sounds VERY similar to Bruce in tone, so if you where going for that, feel great because it sounds awesome, haha, the whole song sounds awesome, man You are always progressing, man, I really like that from you, you are not only a great teacher, but also a very heartfelt singer, always striving for more and more, in that regard you feel very close to us "recent learners". My total respect, Felipe \m/

Woow!! Java, you are getting a lot better! Awesome cover! You seem to control your mix a lot better and it's a lot stronger too. And the whistle part sounds awesome. Congratulations for your progress

Awesome song, man... and incredible voice. I love your technique and your timbre, man

Thanks MDEW, I was needing that ! Take your well deserved Like hahah

Not at all. My main point is that "spitting" air through the folds could be counterproductive or even dangerous if overdone and over an extended period of time. I personally don't use much "quack" kind of sound, for singing or trianing, but I know how to do it, and when I do I don't change much about the airflow, only vocal tract motions and positions. If it's benefiting you, keep using it, of course.

The thing is, I don't even know what do you understand by edginess. An edgy voice to me could be Daniel Heimann, Jens, Rob Halford, Geoff Tate... they all have some really cool, powerful, metallic high range when they choose to. The metal bite and attitude \m/ hahah

I don't know really how twang works, but I physically see and feel the pharynx contracting and moving slightly forward towards the tongue, which makes the space smaller and should increase supra-glottal pressure, or now that I think of it, if it's not that, and the change in space is neglectible then maybe the actual "stiffening" of the pharynx may have some effect and make adduction easier. That's why Steve Fraser and others have talked here about the "necessary twang" to sing powerfully in the high range. Even if just a bit, it's necessary to optimize vocal fold adduction ( This all by got by logic and from stuff I've read, so correct me someone if I'm wrong, please! )

The quack is produced by twang, the pharynx contraction, which makes the space smaller and produces better fold closure, AND amplifies a lot the higher frequencies of the voice. Also it tends to have a higher larynx ( you can twang with a lower larynx too and it sounds brighter, but there still are a lot of low harmonics ) this is why the Quack sounds so metallic and edgy.

This is hugely important, because our voices and bodies are all very different. I learnt from an early age ( 15-16 yo ) to hold back the air from my "inhalation muscles". I used to breath low and keep the breath inside with an open glottis, just by the vacuum of the lungs and idk what specific muscles, really, lol, so my body got used to decrease sub-glottal pressure. I didn't have much air pressure when talking or singing, and due to bad understanding of vocal instruction I started relaxing and releasing too much on my vocal muscles. So those two factors made my voice lose a lot of strength over the years. I sang very airy and soft. That was until the second half of 2013 when I started reading stuff here and figured out I needed pressure to sing. Soon I found my high range, and also learnt how to engage the chest voice more. I figured out that, as my body naturally builds little pressure on my torso and respiratory tract, I need to actively think of expelling air and actually using a good deal of energy to build pressure and sing louder. Some people my not need that. Some might need to hold back on the exhalation for the pressure to be balanced.

I see! Well, what helps me sing lighter in the high range and keep the voice more nimble and agile in that range is, first, back off the volume ( I've gotten used to use full volume because that's how I've been training, for strength ), but keep the pressure feeling on my throat, and think of a more cartoonish voice. A loose, released cartoonish voice, like Disney characters. An interesting feeling to play with is like when you hold the air to take a dive, BUT did you know you can go up in pitch in that configuration? It's like sirening up silently. You feel the larynx tilt when the folds stretch and everything. Then from there make a sound. To me it's hard to keep the closure as I go up in note, my glottis kind of "relaxes" and I have to concentrate a lot on keeping the feeling of pressure. Then playing around for a couple of minutes like that, making connected headvoice is a lot easier. From there, try to add a bit more volume, and more volume until the configuration feels stable enough and loud enough to sing whatever you want.

That's cool then, because when you try that better warmed up youll find a lot more ease and stability. As an experiment, try to think of falsetto when doing the B4+ range, even more so on the C5-D5, but keep the intensity of the "yell" coordination at G4-A4. It may help you release a bit of weight and let the voice release more. Your chestvoice is very strong, so it will keep the stability of the coordination anyway. Also, by the way you are connected in B4-C5, when you are actually well warmed up, you will most likely be able to just slide up to D5-E5 using the same coordination you are using at C5, actually it's not that difficult, because the connection is already there. Also I feel a second "lightening of mass" around A#4-B4, so I feel the C5 a bit lighter than those two notes, and also a change in resonance ( it feels more deep on the back of my throat and pharyngeal ), but if I keep the energy going it just works itself out. Walk through there very slowly so you get to know what is happening and what is moving, and memorize the motions. You seem to have a lot stronger chestvoice than me, so that may be why your second bridge point is clearer and higher, but there definitely is another "transit zone" to skill the way through so don't panic haha Now even it that area is shaky, you should still be able to go up and up if you release more weight. I personally feel like it's just like the back of my throat/folds doing the job when doing lighter phonation stuff, and also the resonance feels a lot more pharyngeal. This is the sound difference in my voice, btw, of the lighter approach on the high range versus the more intense one: Light and "easy"( less energy required ): And the same range but with more intensity, trying to carry more weight up ( more demanding energy-wise ) : In here the thing I do from 1:14 and then at 1:41 And here you can listen how the quality of my D#5 is more pharyngeal or "higher in placement" than my A#4 or even the brief C#5's. So, try to pay attention to how the feeling of the "air pillow" inside your throat changes depending on which note you are and in which intensity, because as you probably can notice, this "placement" changes depending on the intensity and TA activity involved in the phonation. I suggest working at least for a week or two, only on medium intensity as it will be easier to pass through the transitions. Your voice is already quite strong, more than mine, lol, so strength is not the issue here, at all. Focus on the coordinations for now, memorize the motions and the formant shifting.

Another point is that ( also relevant to the warm up thread ), I have a hypothesis that if you haven't warmed up all the muscular groups that work on low, mid and high range in the voice, in different intensities and vowels, then most likely one group will limit your voice capacity. Meaning that probably your TA won't be able to handle the pressure on the higher range, or the CT wont have the strength to stretch the folds and handle the tension the TA is doing, so to me personally warming up is very relevant when singing in the higher range, and in my voice, I dare say... mandatory. lol

Yep, that's it Try to release just a bit of weight or "grab", and see if the C5 becomes more stable or resonant, and also see how higher you can go, by releasing more and more weight. With the resonance you are using, even if you lighten a lot more it will keep the "chesty" timbre I think. See what happens! you don't lose anything by trying

I liked both, a lot. But I liked the first one even more, I can imagine more or less the song structure it could have and how the build up works for the climax and stuff... Also I like intense ballads. I liked your ideas to the point of wanting to sing them when I listen to the end result, and I only want to sing stuff I feel. Also I think your voice fits well your style of creating. Of course I'm only judging from the two recordings I just heard haha